JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Astral Centipede: 11/5/2015 6:22:29 AM
214

The Books of Sorrow, Oryx, and the failure of Destiny's storytelling

EDIT: made a cult https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Detail/1320598 Prior to learning about the Books of Sorrow, I just saw Oryx as some generic evil dark lord without much dimension, and I saw the Hive in a similarly simplistic way. This is because of the poor storytelling and characterization that still persists in Destiny, even with The Taken King's improvements in this aspect. After learning them from the Books of Sorrow, I see Oryx as more of an intellectual, and a fascinating figure. I now want to reject the Traveler's light, master the Sword Logic, make myself sharp, and help the universe achieve it's final perfect shape. For those who haven't unlocked the full Books of Sorrow or would rather to listen here is the audio version: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh48jdKsL30]Part 1[/url] [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C7PFvhKSQo]Part 2[/url] -Explains where the Hive came from, and how they came to be what they are. Their original planet crashed into a gas giant called Fundament, and they lived on pieces floating on the liquid hydrogen mantle. -Explains how in their quest to take back their kingdom from a usurper and stop a world-ending event, Oryx (formerly female before taking the "king morph") and his sisters used an alien ship to dive into the core where they found the worms. The worms were trapped by a being called the leviathan--a servant of the Traveler who was keeping the worms prisoner. -Explains how they formed a symbiosis by ingesting the worms to become immortal, and other effects of such a union. -Explains the the Hive's motive and the philosophy they learned from the worm gods (and rejection of the Traveler). They believe in a very extreme version of survival of the fittest, and they eradicate any life they find (and they found a lot) not out of malice, but out of a desire to free the universe from any form of weakness. To the Hive, if you continue on existing, then you deserve to exist, but if die, it is because you were weak and deserved it. They're helping the universe take it's final perfect eternal shape where only strength is left. -There is also the Sword Logic, and it is that philosophy of of extreme survival of the fittest, but has some metaphysical implications when the powers granted by the worms are involved. One example of this involves cutting through space to create portals of travel; Xivu Arath (Oryx's knight sister) was the first to discover this technique with her Sword Logic. -Very powerful members of the Hive do not simply die; their minds create a universe called a "throne world," where they go when they die (like Crota's raid location), and the way to truly kill them is to kill them there. In the throne worlds, the Sword Logic is physical law, and by killing things, you gain their strength, and can achieve godhood. Example: once, Oryx and his sisters were in a serious risk of being wiped out during one of their wars against another empire, so the sisters had Oryx kill them so that he can gain their power, and then used that power to kill a worm god (Akka) to then take the power he needed to turn the tides of war (actually how he became The Taken King). -Worms feed on the defining aspect of your personality. Oryx's feeds on his inquisitiveness, Xivu Arath's (knight sister) feeds on her violence and strength, and Savathûn's (smart wizard sister) feeds on her cunning. By performing acts related relating to his sisters' defining traits, he actually brought them back to life. He waged a bloody war, allowing Xivu Arath to rise from the blood of the slain and be reborn because Xivu Arath is war. By tricking his enemies into a trap, Oryx's cunning allowed his sister Savathûn to come back to life since Savathûn is cunning. Theoretically, Oryx could be brought back to life if his sisters (or someone else with the Sword Logic powerful enough) did an act of discovery or inquisitiveness large enough. -The more you feed your worm, the more hungry it becomes, and ultimately it is unsustainable. At a certain point there will be no way to feed your worm enough to satisfy it, and it will kill you. Oryx came up with a great solution of tithe/taxing which passes energy up the chain of command to feed higher ranking hive. -Oryx not only talked the talk, but he walked the walk. Anyone was allowed to challenge him in court. His philosophy applied to himself also; if he loses, he knows it's because he deserves to lose. -My absolute favorite thing about the Books of Sorrow is how it details the beautiful familial relationship between Oryx, Savathûn, Xivu Arath, and even Crota and Oryx's twin daughters (who are damn geniuses, they came up with so much cool stuff). They have this competitive relationship where they constantly try to kill each other (Sword Logic/survival of the fittest), but at the same time they truly love each other. I have some excerpts from the Books of Sorrow Grimoire cards that illustrate this perfectly. XXII Verse 3:2 — The High War Now in this time of diaspora there was a war between AURYX and SAVATHÛN and XIVU ARATH. Brother Auryx, said SAVATHÛN, do not forgive my betrayal. Instead, take vengeance upon me for what I did at the dry moon! And AURYX made war on her, in worship of the Deep. Between them stood XIVU ARATH saying, stop, or I will kill you, war is mine and I am strongest. This was how they worshipped. For twenty thousand years they fought across the moons and they fought in the abyssal plains and lightning palaces of each other's sword spaces. And they killed each other again and again, so that they could practice death. Such was their love. At last the many moons came to many worlds and it was time to go to war on life. AURYX said, I shall establish a court, and whoever comes into this court may challenge me. My court will be the High War. It will be a killing ground and a school of the sword logic we have learned from our gods. SAVATHÛN thought this was a great idea. She made a court called the High Coven. XIVU ARATH said, the world is my court, wherever there is war. XXXV Verse 4:5 — This Love Is War Xivu upon Oryx — Uttered by Xivu Arath — Sibling of Oryx — [...] RESURRECTION. Savathûn and I conspired to strand Oryx on his expedition. But I secretly believe that I will be stronger with Oryx to war against. Thus I describe him. A DESCRIPTION OF ORYX. When Oryx looks upon you, you feel that you may vanish if he looks away. The crest of Oryx’s skull is as long as an arm. In the course of its life, a thought moves from one end to the other. Upon his crest I have painted a line in my blood, so that he will remember me. Each of Oryx’s fangs has the precision of a finger and the acuity of an eye. Although he was born at the bottom of the universe, and taught to burrow, Oryx has grown wings. The light of wildfire shines through them. Oryx teaches but he will not be taught. Oryx’s body is corded with strength. His sinews and his muscles are as strong as his children, and his children are the strength of him. Oryx wears a raiment of worm silk, made from the caul of gods. The voice of Oryx may cause two different numbers to become equal. Oryx my Brother is the bravest thing I know. Upon Fundament he learned that we were the natural prey of the universe, the most frail and desperate of things. He thought about this carefully and he found a way to fix it. He made us strong. He will lead us into eternity. Oryx my Brother loves me and this love is war. -Other interesting Grimoire cards from the book of sorrows I find to be very interesting for understanding Oryx. XXIII Verse 3:3 — fire without fuel [...] I feel joy, and sorrow. I feel them as titanic things, because I am larger than my body, my mind is now a cosmos of its own. I know more joy and more anguish than the entire Qugu race could ever experience. Sorrow, because we have killed so much (eighteen species this century alone), and joy for the same reason. Joy that we have put down these blights. Scoured them away and left the universe clean, ready to move towards its final shape. We are a wind of progress. Ripping parasites from the material world — for if they were not parasites, we would be unable to kill them, and they would still exist. And what is that final shape? It is a fire without fuel, burning forever, killing death, asking a question that is its own answer, entirely itself. That is what we must become. My worm grows fat and hungry. I feed it with whole worlds. My astronomers tell me they can sense the Deep Itself, and that we are conquering our way towards it. I think joy and sorrow will be the same thing soon. Like love and death. XLIV Verse 5:2 — strict proof eternal [...] “I don’t have a strict proof yet, you know.” Savathûn strokes the void with one long claw and space-time groans beneath her touch. “This thing we believe — that we’re liberating the universe by devouring it, that we’re cutting out the rot, that we’re on course to join the final shape — I haven’t found a strict, eternal proof. We might yet be wrong.” Oryx looks at her and for a moment, just a moment, he is nostalgic, he is sentimental. He thinks, imagine the years behind us, the things we’ve done. And yet being old doesn’t feel like a scar, does it? It hasn’t left me dull. I feel alive, alive with you, and every time I step back into this world from my throne I feel like I’m two years old again, at the bottom of the universe, looking up. But he says, “Sister, it’s us. We’re the proof, we the Hive: if we last forever, we prove it, and if something more ruthless conquers us, then the proof is sealed.” She looks back at him with eyes like hot needles. “I like that,” she says. “That’s elegant.” Although of course she has had this thought before. EDIT: Out of space, more here https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/160013190/0/0/1 (scroll all the way down)

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • It's a damn shame that they left most of that out of the actual game. Would have been pretty cool figuring out more and more history as the story progresses. Great job with explaining everything!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Bump for later

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    3 Replies
    • More of the cool stuff in the Grimoire needs to make it in game. Heck, the Grimoire needs to be in game. I understand they may not want to stop all the action in the game to go on an extended rant on Hive philosophy, that makes sense. However, at least SOME of the stuff in the Grimoire could make it in game. For that matter, while I appreciate the humor in TTK and they need to keep some humor. I also miss some of the epicness of the early missions. I saw the opening cinematic and played through the first mission again just recently (starting a Hunter) and man, it really sets things up nicely. A fallen civilization, an implacable foe, the mystery of what is the Traveler, what is the Darkness, etc. Vanilla Destiny just doesn't follow through on all that and I'd like for some of that to be delved back into. Also, forgive me if I'm incorrect but aren't the Books of Sorrow written by Oryx himself? If so, that makes me wonder, are they necessarily 100% correct?

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • I somehow missed Fundament being a gas giant. Was having trouble wrapping my head around a normal planet with 50+ massive moons, but a gas giant makes much more sense. But why on Earth would you agree with the Hive's philosophy? Their "perfect" universe is empty and lifeless. You're a psychopath if you think universal omnicide could possibly be a good thing.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      8 Replies
      • First of all I think oryx was always a male. They were referred to as sisters but also never referred to as princesses while on fundament. I know for a fact they were called princes at one point. Second, their "10 year" life cycle is NOT and SHOULD NOT be thought of as earth years, for all we know those 10 years could have been 100 but I digress. Third, their voyage to the worms took them almost all their lifetime so it's very unclear how much time they actually spent looking for power. It's awesome read though.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        5 Replies
        • Edited by kellygreen45: 10/6/2015 2:48:03 PM
          Classic tale of darkness and evil. From Hitler to the Sith of the Star Wars universe and the Shadows of Babylon 5. No monster ever sees himself as a monster, because everyone wants to be the hero of their own stroud. So rare is the bad guy who just says "I want to do bad things." The are usually trying to build something they value, or gain power or something else of value. What makes them evil is the utter narcissism of that pursuit, and utter disregard for others or any reasonable limits: My philosophy is more important than your right to exist. What I want is all that matters, so I'm justified in killing you and taking it. It is that destructiveness and disregard for others or moral limits that define what is evil. Like in the Babylon 5 universe, we will likely discover that The Traveler is a force for Creation and/or Order. In opposition to the Chaos, "creative destruction" the Hive and the Worms of Darkness the serve represent.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          20 Replies
          • So, I'm curious. What does this mean for us, metaphysically? For the Guardians? I've consumed Crota's soul echo and I'm now and ascendant hive, technically. I have another piece of him powering my gun and I wield a reclaimed shard of Oryx's sword. :)

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            4 Replies
            • The final form, absolutely killing everything deemed weak, sound similar something a guys named Hitler said. Why would you want to kill everything that's weak, that's pure evil. The worms are sly creatures and should not have been trusted.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              7 Replies
              • "Your life will be a battle too. You will have to win your place at the High War. I will give you nothing... except this, your first sword, and this name I have prepared for you. We fight a war against false hope, Crota. We chase a god called the Traveler, a huckster god who baits young life into building houses for it. These houses are unsafe, for they cannot stand against my Hive. And these houses are a trap — for they lead young life away from the blade and the tooth, which are the tools of survival and the means of ascension. Only when the Traveler is extinguished will the universe be free to arrange itself, and assume, by ruthless contest, its final perfect shape, a shape which depends on nothing but itself. Thus I name you Crota, Eater of Hope." Oyrx isn't here to avenge Crota, she is here to finish the Traveler since Crota failed. We stand in the way. Eris stated the same in the cinematic with her rock on Cayde's map…Oryx comes to finish it. Her sisters are still out there, and the Cabal are free to find a way to fight us. Cabal: "Psion analysis indicates that specific areas are inimicable to Guardian counter-attritional reconstruction. Phobos Command has initiated an orbital survey. BL I/2 will attack the Vex gate artifact in Meridian Bay to secure possible related intelligence. Flayer analysis suggests that the Hive have developed unconventional counter-Dead Person capability. The capture of Hive leadership might yield vital strategic intelligence, including weapons or tactics capable of defeating Guardians permanently. We advance that the Hive fleet group near Saturn presents a strong target."

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • Bump for later

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • I'm always interested in the lore but with my lack of calcified fragments I could never really find a guide to this form of detail, good job man

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • do you know how much time, work, and money would have to go into making all of the books of sorrow a part of the actual game? and how would you present it? one huge cutscene? a -blam!-ton of small cutscenes? have eris record an audio book with toland talking about all of that? whichever way you think of it, it is very hard (if not impossible) to implement all that lore into the game in an organic, non-intrusive, not boring, engaging way. the whole reason the grimoire exists is to have those stories be told in an easy, cheap manner that doesn't make players sit through it if they don't want (like the original cutscenes were before you could skip them). i get that some people don't like the format, but it just makes sense, and i, for one, feel a lot more immersed actually reading the books of sorrow for myself than having them read to me out loud in the middle of shooting things. my opinion, of course

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  2 Replies
                  • I might care if any of it was actually in the game, but it's not, so the game remains a hollow story less shell with the worst loot system and development team in history. The only thing keeping it going is solid gun play. With Battlefront and Rainbow on the horizon I will soon have much better shooters to play that don't involve continuous soulless grinding for gear that is obsolete in three months.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 Reply
                    • Awesome stuff.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Thank you for sharing this with the rest of the people, I read the whole book and it makes me sad to think most people in Destiny will never read it because they are caught up doing other stuff because of Destiny's failed choice to share it's lore in-game. Hopefully this post will become big and they will realize what Destiny has to offer story-wise.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Bump please.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Edited by Mike-MF-Hall: 10/6/2015 4:05:19 PM
                      I don't think they can ever go as in depth in game as they do in the grimore. They could make short films about just some of the weapons for example. Something like the book of sorrows could be it's own feature film. However i really wish it wasn't a separate thing, and the grimore was at least in game somewhere.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Awesome post. And awesome read My only thing is the deep the actual darkness?

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      4 Replies
                      • Edited by Talk2MeToner: 10/6/2015 3:42:35 PM
                        Thank god some others are able to read. I thought I was one of a few who had actually read this like a book. I kid you not I took an hour or so and just read it straight like a book and it was a good book. Also the vex Quria Blade Transform interests me. It learned from Crota and oryx about sword logic. It wants to mimic Oryx and his sisters I wonder if we will see vex that mimic hive I future dlc. Sort of like taken but instead transforming vex who worship the sword logic. It could make an intersting boss fight too. A boss who has many forms. Ps my summary is slightly longer and in parts give it a read https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/159838111/0/0

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • You can join the Trinary Star Cult.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Great read and summary

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Placing the story of a game OUTSIDE the actual game is complete shit. End of story. BTW, thanks for your summary.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        7 Replies
                        • I agree, the Oryx storyline is fascinating...Bungie just has a terrible way of delivery.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Fantastic post. Destiny is still suffering from the same problems: the story still sucks, the social aspect is non-existent, and the gear is lame.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • This is why the hive are my favourite baddies. Such a cool backstory.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Remember the first verse is in darkness. Predators isn't the first verse

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 2 3 4 5 6 7
                        You are not allowed to view this content.
                        ;
                        preload icon
                        preload icon
                        preload icon