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Edited by The Cellar Door: 9/18/2015 3:35:43 AM
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A quick thought about Astronomy.

This is a serious post. If you don't know how to add to a discussion or say anything except for spam, please just ignore this post. We are on a [i]very[/i] small planet, which rotates about its axis, an axis which moves (look up:precession), while rotating about our star, while rotating about the middle of the Galaxy, in a galaxy which moves about other galaxies, galaxies which are gravitationally bound in a cluster, which moves about all the other clusters in the universe; all the while gravity bends light, light takes time to travel to us, and the expansion of space has been accelerating for the past 5 billion years. We have absolutely horrible vision of the universe. Countless calculations have to be made to correct for error when observing space. [b]What If we're missing something?[/b]

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  • What if Andromeda galaxy already collided with us and we still don't know because light hasn't got here yet?

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    • Well, we're not missing abstract objects that must necessarily exist, such as arithmetic and arguably reason. Arithmetic, or mathematics, is what we use to explain our reality scientifically (which is philosophically amazing). Your question depends on what you mean by 'missing'. Are we missing an asteroid that could, literally, possible hit the earth tomorrow and destroy life as we know it? Or are we missing some fundamental mathematical formula/principle that would contradict everything we think we know about the universe? And if that's the case, then we have to define mathematics. If it is the case that we're missing some fundamental principle or law, then does that mean that mathematics is a natural entity that would exist even if humans never began to exist? That we discover these principles, rather than create them? If they are discovered, then this is an objective truth about the universe and reality (for example, the fact that there is something rather than nothing). This would entail that we have some standard by which to measure and examine the universe - and that standard is mathematics, which we use to design our theories and laws to explain the world. Two + 2 equals four. And a mathematical formula that sufficiently describes some natural phenomenon, and contains no errors, [i]must[/i] be true. But this is assuming that the laws we find present in our galaxy are the same across all galaxies. Which leads to the [i]Copernican Principle[/i]. Which leads to the second abstract idea I brought up, which is reasoning - the more philosophical realm. We can use reason to determine many truths about the world. Like the one I pointed out above, we reason that there is something rather than nothing, and this is true no matter how you try to spin it. Even if we were living in the matrix, that entirely speculative (and therefore can not be proven) theory implies that there is still something that exists - namely, the matrix. Belief in the reality of the world around us is what philosophers call a properly basic belief (you'll find this a lot in theist arguments for the existence of God). Lacking a sufficient defeater for this belief, it's reasonable to think that our reality is as we perceive it to be. The same thing applies to the cosmogony enterprise as a whole. I'm gonna cut this short due to time constraints so I can't get fully into it, but the bottomline is that [b]of course[/b] we're missing something, in the sense that there is something that we have yet to discover. Science would cease to exist if this weren't the case. There is still plenty of knowledge that we don't have, but this doesn't mean that the knowledge we already have is incorrect. It most likely will need some revising in the future, but there's no reason to think that 1k years from now, astronomers/astrophysicists will come to discover that the sun is in fact rotating around the earth, rather than the earth rotating around the sun. There just isn't any good reason to think that our 'missing something' could potentially lead to metaphysical contradictions in the way that we understand the world.

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      • I feel that if we truly are missing something, we have know way of knowing. Modern technology isnt where it needs to be for us to observe space as much as we want. Right now we know very little. We dont promote astronomy as much as we should and that makes it uninteresting. In the world we live in we come up with so many theories about the universe but cant back them up. I guess what in trying to say is that humans in general are unable to understand the complexity of our universe and whatever lies beyond that, leading to the inability to question the unknown. Also for S&G, I figured that I would add this. Time travel may see impossible but maybe the answer is right in front of us. Today I questioned the multiverse theory and if it is at all possible. We tell of black holes roaming the universe compressing everything down to a singularity. Using bubbles as a model and each hand as a universe in a so called multiverse, you can create a tubular structure which can transport objects without ripping the bubble. So what if our time travel is just a black hole lined up with another in another universe. This would create a tubular structure that holding on near the ourside of could allow the safe passage through. Its just a thought and could use some more testing but it makes sense and could be possible. [spoiler]sorry for the incorrect spelling and gramer. This was typed up on my phone. Hopefully the point gets across[/spoiler]

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      • We are quite obviously missing many things.

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      • Current humans will miss a lot Future humans could see some amazing things [spoiler]by future humans I mean billions of years [/spoiler]

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      • 24 is the answer

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        • True, the light that reaches us outside of our own galaxy and even more so outside of our local supercluster is incredibly lensed. Add the dark energy accelerating our Universe at unfathomable speeds and I honestly have no clue what to tell you. I think the most important step that will take us down the rabbit hole even farther is quantum physics and dark matter. Figuring out what dark matter is and how dark matter interacts with our current visible universe will certainly lead us to new theories even more far flung than the current ones being proposed now.

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          • Are you stupid? The earth is flat.

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            • Meow

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            • no op, you are not the center of the universe

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            • #Checkm8Athiests

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              • Us humans need to start realizing that colonizing the final frontier is the only way to keep us progressing as a race

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              • :| I feel like you are missing something very important, in your pursuit to not miss anything.

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                • Edited by The Cellar Door: 9/18/2015 4:35:33 PM
                  Also, for anyone who was wondering about the image I used in the OP. This video explains the concept of "super clusters" and how scientists group galaxies to map this out. What's absolutely amazing to me, is when they go into the 3d model, and every single one of the bubbles is representative of a galaxy (with 100's of millions of stars). And that is all just in our super cluster, Laniakea which is about 1 billion light years across. Everything we've ever known, it's literally just a speck inside one of those bubbles. And then we also have to consider that Laniakea isn't nearly everything in the universe. The universe is an estimated ~93 billion light years in diameter. This sort of scale is incredibly humbling.

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                • still not pink square.

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                • We most certainly are missing [b]something[/b]. For example: dark matter, what is it beyond something that should mathematically exist? To what degree does the insanity of quantum physics affect our massive universe? Then there's black holes, we know so insanely little about them beyond what we can observe with telescopes. The list of questions surrounding these is wall of text by itself. So we are certainly missing something, and I look forward to seeing how many more somethings we learn, and how many more somethings we discover we need to learn about as throughout my life.

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                  • Edited by TriVhexxQ: 9/18/2015 3:57:11 PM
                    It's a long ways away and I know where you are coming from, we are built to think of these thing but we aren't "created" to go out and find more. I say "created" because it's still a mystery on how humans have come to be humans and if God is real or not ( I'm an Atheist) but the fact is that everything will be a mystery in this life and the next but you have to think about it like this.... If we can't create peace with the whole world or even create an agreement with a nuclear missile having to be involved, then we will never get to see what's really out there. People are to caught up on the mere image or living a good life, to see that our world is dying and we can't do much about it. What we need to do is find a planet that is inhabitable. But as I said before, that not going to happen for a very long time and I personally want to be someone that matters, not in this world, but this galaxy, this universe. Gandhi was a great figure who made peace with many and never resulted to violence but one man can't ever do it alone so he had his followers assist him, the matter of the fact is that his enemies continued to harass and harm him. But Gandhi is just a microscopic man, in a tiny world, in a small Galaxy, throughout this entire universe. But you know what.... That iPen seems really -blam!-ing cool! What are we doing! I know that I will probably never be able to say my thoughts to the entire world but I'm sorry everyone, we are already an extinct species living in a dead broken down world, and it's too late to fix it. Mark my words it can be done, but great minds thinking alike in any situation, can make great potential of a big thing. I'm not saying it's impossible, nothing is, but I'm saying we as all of the human race and species, need to hurry. This may just be the bungie off topics forum but we are people like everyone else, all we have to do is work together as ONE species, not hundred or so countries. We can do it, if we believe. Life is just an invisible image in our heads, just an English word in a world of many languages. It like a dream, something so real, but then you wake up. You just.... stop.... Many beliefs, many religions, but it's all in our minds, physically made up. Books have been written, jokes have been told, the stories, legends, myths, physics, laws, theories! It's a holographic image the will soon just..... Disappear

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                  • Edited by Kamots: 9/18/2015 5:13:11 AM
                    The question isn't so much of "What if?" as it is just "What?" If there is anything we can take from history, it is that there will probably be no end to the search for knowledge. It would be ridiculous and, to be frank, quite irresponsible to ever take a position of "we're done here", regardless of scale or importance. Beyond that, it is quite likely impossible that we are right about our vision of the universe. This is especially the case when we haven't really come to any consensus of a vision yet at all. It's always sad to see the death of the love for adventure in people. To make a (perhaps not wholly correct) analogy, we should follow the example of the shark. Keep moving, or you will die. This death may not be immediately physical, but it is death nonetheless. Even backwards is better than nowhere at all.

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                    • 1
                      We're always going to be missing something no matter what knowledge we get. It's the beauty of the universe.

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                    • Bro, this is OFFTOPIC. You're going to get shitposts. But I agree with you on that one. For all we know other stars don't exist and are only reflections of particle clouds.

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                      • We likely are. All our calculations and measurements are mostly earthbound.

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                      • Obviously we're missing nearly everything.

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                      • Dark matter

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                      • I believe our astronomers are pretty accurate on their conclusions the only problem is we can only see what's in the observable universe. (Lucky for us it's expanding) but unless we can travel freely throughout space we can only conduct so many experiments. Which in turn leaves a giant gap with our understanding.

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                        • Edited by Gorillapants: 9/18/2015 4:32:06 AM
                          Daily dose of reality: [b][i][u]WE DON'T -blam!-ING MATTER[/u][/i][/b]

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                          • I'm positive that we are wrong about something. Only so much can be done made from observations and calculations light years away, regardless of the precesion of the calculations. I only hope I can live enough for something big in science to surface and shake up our way of life as we know it

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