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#feedback

Edited by Puckett: 12/1/2014 11:08:03 PM
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Feedback on public events, the new patch, how changes always seem to hurt players, etc.

For quite some time, friends of mine and I have avoided doing the Eliminate A Target public event because it's usually one of the most pointlessly difficult things in the game. About a week ago, a friend of mine and I saw a level 8 target on the moon. Using the appropriate elemental damage for the shield, our level 29 and level 28 toons were unable to complete the event. That, by any measure, is ridiculous. It's absurd that a level 8 mob could survive sustained fire from two toons at higher levels for any length of time, much less five minutes. But then I logged in, excited about Bad Juju being more useful, only to find that successfully completing a public event with a gold tier rating apparently doesn't yield ascendant materials anymore. Only to find that I can't sell excess materials for crucible marks anymore. Only to find that the gains from decrypting engrams haven't just been "reduced," they were cut in HALF - that means it will take me twice as long to get a cryptarch care package of blues (or, for a glass half full perspective, I'll have to delete half as many blue pieces of junk now). [Seriously, we REALLY need to work on your use of language here - the Thorn bounty doesn't "slow" progress, it actually REVERSES it. Reducing reputation gains? Sure, technically cutting them in half is reducing them, but you could also use "halved reputation gains" and it would be FAR more honest - yes, I am saying that I feel like Bungie, AT BEST, misrepresents changes.] So what use are my ascendant materials now? And why do you use Xur, an artificial gating mechanism, for so many things? Exotic bounties often require items from Xur and now we need more crap from that vendor to finish upgrading an Exotic. All using Xur tells us is "Wait five days because that's how we extend your play time instead of giving you actual content - we make you wait for no good reason to do something." The only reason I haven't traded Destiny in is because, based on the strength of the alpha and beta, I upgraded my pre-order to the limited edition for the first time EVER, figuring that that alpha and beta would only be maybe 5% of the content AT MOST, right? It wouldn't be 20+% of the story; how could it be? For a while now, I've been starting to feel buyer's remorse. The Thorn bounty started that, when it required me to do PVP. Other bounties continued that. It contradicted Bungie's statement that players could play how they wanted to. Armor and light accelerated it, once I realized I could wear a matched set of armor and get to 29 but not boost my preferred weapon types, I could wear a mismatched set to support my preferred weapon types and get to 29, or I could get to level cap by getting raid armor which does not support my play style (I prefer pulse and auto rifles as primary weapons). There's nerfing the loot cave, which only ever became a thing because of terrible drop ratios and the cryptarch taking purple engrams and decoding them to green items. There's halving the reputation gains from decrypting items with the cryptarch, when my main toon is literally LEVEL 59 and I can't remember the last time that toon got a legendary engram as a reward from the cryptarch, because for the last 20-odd levels or so, every rank up has given me two blue engrams which usually decrypt as a level 16 item and a level 19 item, both of which are utterly useless to someone at level 29. There are the changes to the raid - players can fall off the edge, we can be pushed off the edge, we can be blown off the edge by explosions, but somehow Atheon and the Templar have some magic invisible wall that keeps them from meeting the same fate? We can't plan who does what in the raid because everyone needs to know all roles? I've played MMOs in the past. I understand that things change, sometimes drastically. But Destiny is coming up on the three-month mark, and it keeps flip-flopping. Almost every change made has taken things away from players who were playing the way they wanted. Almost every change forces players into a narrow, Bungie-prescribed path blending PVP and PVE to gear up. Almost every change seems to punish players for using game systems in ways Bungie didn't intend - note that I'm not saying players were abusing these system or glitching - I'm saying, point blank, that players used systems that were working as Bungie intended but in ways that Bungie didn't anticipate and Bungie's consistent response has been picking up the ball and going home. I'm tired, I'm annoyed and I'm fed up. My happiness that Bad Juju finally had a clip size that would allow me to use it in actual play to level it up instead of equipping it before I turned in bounties was quickly dashed by all of the other crap. And this patch? Relatively speaking, this was a GOOD one for players. It fixed some long-standing issues. But I'm tired of feeling like every single patch screws players because Bungie doesn't like how we play because we aren't playing the way Bungie thinks we should. I'm not even going to get started on wanting better reporting options to report people for good or undesirable behavior (like the folks who don't quit when someone drops out and instead stick it out and finish the boss fight, or the people who sit idle for 75-80% of a strike, or the people who Leeroy Jenkins everything), or the need to give players some kind of reward for breaking down a ship or sparrow, or having to watch the same cutscenes every single time we do a daily or weekly, or Dinklage's terrible voiceover which just keeps getting worse as I hear it over and over (I just hope we don't get sucked into a transdimensional vortex). Just to try to explain how frustrated I am, I'm ready to quit playing Destiny for Dragon Age Inquisition and I HATE sword and sorcery games because I grew up on Wizardry, Bard's Tale, the original Ultima games, Zork, etc. For most of my time as a gamer, the dominant RPG category has been fantasy and I'm sick to death of it, but Dragon Age seems like it would be more enjoyable and, dare I say it, FUN right now. You already got my money for the limited edition. I can't change that, no matter how much I wish I could. And for all your claims of listening, it seems every option is binary - you can have this half solution or this other half solution, but neither fixes the problem at hand, they just mean you have to work around that problem in a different way. But what I can control is how much more time I put into Destiny (which, considering you aren't charging for monthly access, is actually a benefit to you because people who don't play don't use server capacity) and whether I pay for anything else. At this point, I could care less about a 10-year lifecycle for the game because, as a result of all this stuff, I don't trust anything Bungie says now. I am quite frustrated with all this, obviously. I am annoyed at the lack of content, at the small additions (these DLC packs are, if we're being honest, lacking content - a few missions, a few PVP maps and a raid that an increasing number of people don't seem like they'll be able to do because their friends have stopped playing - as many of my friends have - and there's no matchmaking), at the repetition which is meant to seem like progress but is really just doing the same damn thing again. And again. And again. And again. I don't know how many times I've killed Draksis, but I'm betting it's well into double digits. Frankly, I feel cheated. I feel ripped off. And I loved the promise of the alpha, of the beta. I got excited about the GameInformer issue. And now, I just regret ever buying this game in the first place.

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  • A quick bulk response: 1. @kiyumaral: I have three toons - Hunter, Titan and Warlock, all of which can be level 29 if I swap out gear in the vault, some of which are not because they're leveling different armor pieces. No idea why you can't see them - it's probably a privacy setting somewhere. I've also played since alpha. I just don't post a lot. 2. I have soloed a few Eliminate The Target missions - if they don't have shields, they're cake. If they do have shields, even with the correct elemental damage type to cut through the shield, they seem invincible. 3. I never sold materials to grind rank - that's a terrible idea and horribly inefficient way to do it. I sold them for crucible marks on two toons that I don't PVP with (which is also horribly inefficient, but I wanted one specific armor item from a faction to support my playstyle on that toon and it made more sense to sell materials I didn't need than grind out marks in the Crucible). 4. I am pretty terrible at PVP which is why I avoid it. I know a lot of people really enjoy it and having someone with my relative lack of skill on their team detracts from their enjoyment. For my part, I prefer PVE and generally stick with that side of the game, which is why it's so frustrating that Bungie requires PVP for certain things. Believe me, for those folks who commented on it, I don't want to be in your PVP any more than you want me there. The feeling - save for the more negatively expressed or hostile comments - is mutual. In other words, I'm not saying you suck for liking PVP, just acknowledging that we have different interests in the game and I usually want to avoid PVP as much as you want me to avoid it. 5. I finished Thorn. Hated every second of it. In fact, I've finished Thorn, Bad Juju (twice, third one in progress), Invective (six times, maybe seven - I have one on each toon, deleted the rest for ascendant materials), Pocket Infinity and Super Good Advice (twice, third in progress). IMO, Super Good Advice is the easiest/fastest to finish - once you get past the Xur gating factor to artificially extend the time it takes to accomplish something. 6. @NeillMcAttack: I'm frustrated because my Cryptarch rank is 59 and for about the last 20-odd ranks, I've gotten nothing but two blue engrams each time I ranked up. And I have no faith that Bungie doubled the chance of getting a legendary engram, and even if they did double the chance, what is the actual likelihood? It goes from 1% chance to 2%? 3%? 5%? Loot drops for high-level players are terrible. Why is anyone over level 20 receiving a level 19 - or less - item? Why are they part of Cryptarch rewards? The other factions grant a legendary item on rank up - if Bungie tells me that each Cryptarch level reward will grant no less than one legendary item and it actually happens, that's fantastic. I have no complaints about that. However, given Bungie's track record at this point, I'm skeptical. Thanks for the comments.

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    • Me and another random level 30 just did a eliminate on mars and it took us maybe 1 minute to kill him. I used gallahorn 3 times and he used a fusion and he was down for the count.

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    • Edited by gothamfury: 12/2/2014 8:22:05 PM
      Zork! The Eliminate a Target public event is tough when the target has shields. Their shields regenerate fast and they run pretty quick. I almost got one solo but the target switched gears and just ran through the last few checkpoints.

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      • Agree with pretty much all that you said OP. I've noticed less and less of my friends are playing each day over the last month - cuz face it, it's a grind fest. Even the raid is a grind. Of course people cheese when they can cuz it turns into a boring timesink! Anyway Bungie better give us a DLC worth our time next week or watch players move on to other games. I'm tired of being funneled into the one single play style Bungie had in mind. the creative spark has been hidden away from us as we line up to grind. Good luck finding 5 friends for the raid. I hate the raid but it's the only path to level 30. I just don't see this game lasting 10 years if they're not going to give us multiple paths for success. They'll drive away casual players in favor of the elite few that like to raid day in and day out. Well, not me. I'm getting to the point of considering returning to defiance. Yep. I'm that bored.

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      • Very valid. Thanks for staying calm and keeping the criticism constructive. I think you'd be a good community rep to be honest. Everything you've said here is really bang on. My buddies and I (back when I had friends playing, I'm the only one left) played the beta and were so excited because we thought beta's were a small percentage of a game. It really was half the game in the beta!! We couldn't believe it once the game dropped and we got to Mars and nothing happened after it. We spent an hour after looking around the maps and online because we thought we missed something hahaha! I do like something's in the update, I'm the happiest with Bad Juju.

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        • This latest update alienates your entire player vs. Enemy section of your player base. I have already found a much weaker experience playing the game. Now I find myself COMPLETELY ignoring all of the material outside on the maps. Canisters of spinmetal and chunks of iron out in the wild on their respective maps are completely pointless. With every chest on a map containing material there is no point at all harvesting it in the wild. Even now I find myself throwing away 90% of what I get from chests because having more than 40 or 50 helium canisters is pointless and we now cant sell them. Also I hate the PvP in destiny. The radar sucks and there is no balance between those with over powered gear from doing VOG 100 times, those who haven't had the chance to find 6 people to do it at one time. So the only way I can get crucible marks is by selling materials. It's a way to empty out some inventory and get both marks as well as experience when I need to upgrade a weapon and I have ran out of bounties for the day. Selling material gave me a reason to play this game more than an hour a week. Because being a PvE player vs a PvP player, means that I can max out my vanguard marks for the week in about an hour. Then I have no other reason to be on here anymore since you basically took all the "Farmers" out there that play your game and said, "F YOU! You are going to play PvP or you can kiss our butts". Because it has been painfully obvious since I first got Destiny, that Bungie wants us to play PvP. That is all they care about it seems. And this update and been a kick in the balls for every single farmer out there. If this isn't fixed by the next update I am selling this game and getting COD.

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          • Time for a feel trip OP...felt this way after a month of playing. Shelved the game and hopped on DA: Inquisition, at least there is a story and an incentive to play it. Destiny failed when the story was not present, the lore was online, and the matchmaking ranking system vanished. There is absolutely no content. I logged on a few days ago after almost a month of not playing, only to find out that nothing has changed at all...so, why would I keep playing? I liked this game, ranking up, teaming up with my friends...but after doing the same strike, missions and raid day after day, how can you not be pissed off? Buying a game at full retail price, with less than half of the content that was in the Beta? Lol "...I could tell you of the great battle between Bungie and its Community long ago..."

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            • BUMP BIG TIME! I agree with all of this. One thing though, and maybe this will demonstrate how out-of-touch i am, but who is Leroy Jenkins?

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              • Very well said. I feel like this last update may be the last straw for me. I'm a solo player for the most part and I don't like the crucible. So it just seems that for the guy who wants to play solo.. Buy his weapons.. And have a blast doing patrol runs.. That bungie is going out there way to make things more and more difficult to advance. Unless you play with other players. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But as time goes on bunnies claims of this game being the kind of game that you can choose to play solo or play with others is disappearing

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                • I feel the same way. Bump.

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                • Edited by JaykoBlanco: 12/2/2014 4:13:44 AM
                  1. I solo those Targets all the time, in fact I did one yesterday with a 26 titan on mars. Maybe you suck? 2, The thorn bounty is easy as -blam!-, and if you can't complete that simple challenge, you don't deserve to wield it. 3. It was 50 mats for 5 marks and 20 rep. If that how you were ranking your factions it's no wonder you're pissed off. Here's a hint: tiger strike. 4. You can play the game however you want, but that does not mean they're gonna hand shit to you. And I'm happy they aren't cause a whiner like you doesn't deserve the best this game has to offer

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                  • Bump

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                  • This is the most accurate post I've ever read.

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                  • Bump. Well said.

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                  • This should be printed on the back of every destiny game cover. Very valid points, great points of view and straight on point. I wish this post had 50 million comments and likes so bungie would actually see it.

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                  • Edited by shadowgaze72: 12/3/2014 7:49:39 PM
                    I agree,! Sadly now they can advertise all they want, but everyone knows now and word of mouth travels fast- so what good does that do? The gamers who were on board, are now, well seriously disappointed, I wanted ruined cities to explore, more roam space no invisible ceilings, death by roaming to far ( don't get that at all) forges, people in the city, characters, battles, races, I don't know I have a lot of ideas and was seriously hoping for some of this in the game. I'm not going to drag on you nailed it, and as great as the mechanics are, graphics good and music decent, there's no staying power here - not for me anyhow. I like the strikes but you strike to get better gear to do strikes to get better gear to do more strikes, - see a pattern yet?

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                  • Wow was gonna say your a cry baby but dam!! Good freaking points there bud!!

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                  • Great post mate. The one thing Destiny has taught me about Bungie is that for a company known for great FPSs they sure know how to shoot themselves in the foot. I still love playing Destiny because I have made some great friends through my DoD group and clan and the core gameplay is great, however this doesn't lessen the frustration that I feel. What could be a great game is continually being hamstrung by bad decisions from the devs, not to mention an almost complete disregard for what the community wants. I remember one chap that got a right roasting on the main board for criticising Bungie before release for voicing very similar things to those you have here. I posted backing some of what he said and at the time I said that the biggest issue is that Bungie have come nowhere near to delivering what they promised pre-release. Without the hype we'd have had a flawed but addictive game, unfortunately many of us had hoped for so much more.

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                    • Edited by Razzupaltuff: 12/3/2014 12:38:20 AM
                      This is one of the best posts I have read on this issue so far. I particularly like this statement: [quote]lmost every change made has taken things away from players who were playing the way they wanted. Almost every change forces players into a narrow, Bungie-prescribed path blending PVP and PVE to gear up. Almost every change seems to punish players for using game systems in ways Bungie didn't intend - note that I'm not saying players were abusing these system or glitching - I'm saying, point blank, that players used systems that were working as Bungie intended but in ways that Bungie didn't anticipate and Bungie's consistent response has been picking up the ball and going home.[/quote] Bungie is full of themselves. How old are these people? They behave like the shitty little brat that invites other kids to his home and then freaks out whenever they don't play the way he wants it, and make him feel he isn't the boss.

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                      • I agree with most of this post. Except for the part about Thorn. It is an exotic. It should be difficult to get. If you are not good at pvp, get a team together and use strategy to defeat teams of randoms. Stop Complaining about this.

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                      • Perfectly sums up how I've been feeling for the last month and a half. I regret preordering, and I anticipate only disappointment from the DLC. Yet I still play because I keep hoping that this game will somehow get its shit together and become something more than a mediocre time sink. I'm not holding my breath.

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                        • I completely agree with the sentiment of this post. It hurts the most because Bungie had me counting the hours to launch. I am one of the suckers to have purchased the $150 Ghost Edition, and I regret not trying to flip it on EBay for 2 or 3 times that amount. The FPS mechanics are solid, as we should expect from Bungie, which is one of the only reasons I still log 20+ hours/week. I am mildly quelled by this patch, but the lack of AssMats or other rewards for Public Events really irks me. And the lack of transparency makes it worse. I don't need everything spelled out, and I love discovering little surprises, but this feels unjust and unnecessary, not to mention rendering events more or less worthless. I will of course play the two DLCs I've paid for, but it better make great strides to convince me to pay for more.

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                          • Well stated..

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                          • Some terrible points here. Not worth the read.

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                          • This - "Wait five days because that's how we extend your play time instead of giving you actual content - we make you wait for no good reason to do something." So much THIS. Absolute crap.

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                          • Well said! While I'm not in a position where I want to trade the game in (though I completely sympathize with your feelings and think them justified), I whole heartedly agree with everything you've said about the game's systems and mechanics. I'm frustrated with nearly everything Bungie does every update, and it's worse when they make adjustments they don't even bother to list in their patch notes--in this case, the lack of Ascendant materials from public events REALLY grinds my gears. My beloved Pocket Infinity was practically brought back to its former glory, only to have [i]this[/i] happen.

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