原先發佈於:The Ashen Conflux
So, there has been a lot of controversy around the class of Dredgen Yor before he was corrupted. I hope to clear some of that confusion up with this post. First of all, anyone who knows who Dredgen Yor is can skip this part. The man who will become Dredgen Yor was an extremely powerful guardian who ruled the crucible with his hand cannon, named the Rose. On a mission in the Hellmouth, this man met Xyor the Unwed, who corrupted the man. The man renamed himself Dredgen Yor, meaning “The Eternal Abyss”, and then went on a kill spree with his Thorn, while killing the hunter, Pahanin and taking his cloak. Now, this is another point of controversy. Some people believe that Dredgen’s hand cannon physically changed when he was corrupted, and others believe that his perspective of the gun changed, hence the names Rose and Thorn.
Now, there is no confirmed answer as to what Dredgen Yor’s identity really is, but there is evidence that Dredgen Yor could have been any of the three classes. Let’s start with the evidence that he was a hunter. Now, from the images on the Ghost Fragment: Thorn grimoire cards, and the hunter cloak, Cloak of Dredgen Yor, it is practically confirmed that Dredgen Yor wore a cloak, regardless of the class he was. The evidence that supports that he was a hunter is the fact that he wore a cloak in the first place, the Cloak of Dredgen Yor as a hunter cloak and the hunter artifact, Dredgen Yor’s Rose. These in-game items are the evidence that supports that Dredgen Yor was a hunter.
Now for the warlocks. There isn’t much evidence that supports that he was a warlock, but I have gathered what I could, and here it is. The only evidence that supports that he was a warlock is again, the images for the the Ghost Fragment: Thorn cards. You can clearly see that he is a warlock wearing a hunter cloak. This segment was very short, but the next section will be longer for sure.
Lastly, the most sound theory of them all, the fact that he was the titan, Rezyl Azzir. For those who don’t know, Rezyl Azzir was an extremely powerful titan that is credited with being one of the first ever guardians. The main source of evidence for this is the Legends and Mysteries: Rezyl Azzir card, which I will put below:
[spoiler]Something in Rezyl was telling him he shouldn't be here.
Something deep.
Something resembling fear.
He knelt, examining the dust-covered pile at his feet.
“The skulls had been discarded with little care some time ago – decades, maybe longer.
The doors carved into the rock face were arcane – dark, gothic... other... and large.
The jagged finery of their archway spoke to an artistry that only served to strengthen the sinking feeling in his gut.
Rezyl had come to Luna in search of nightmares, and after his long journey—from the growing City beneath the Traveler to the ends of the Earth and beyond—he found himself face-to-face with the remnants of stories he'd hoped were nothing but lies.
He stood, a large man made small against the massive, looming doorway.
The knot in his stomach was telling him to turn back.
Instead, he moved forward, toward the doors; sealed, as they were, for ages untold.
After only a few steps, a shrill, heavy scraping cut the air.
The massive doors were opening.
Rezyl steadied his rifle as a lone shape, floating just above the ground, appeared from the deep black beyond the threshold.
The figure in the doorway—a dark, ethereal woman cloaked in tattered ceremony and armored with ornate bone—danced in the air.
Rezyl and the demon woman held their ground, contemplating one another.
With no warning the silent intimacy of the moment was broken by a booming, angry call from deep within the doorway. The sound, thick and pained, echoed across the narrow valley then fell silent.
After a beat that felt like eternity, the figure backed away into the dark.
The doors remained wide – an invitation or a dare, Rezyl did not know. Nor did he care.
The mighty Titan took steps forward.
“Uhhhh... I’m not sure this is a good idea,” his Ghost’s concern was impossible to mistake.
“Not sure that matters.”
“We’ve come. We’ve seen. Maybe the best course here is to warn others. Gather an army.”
“Maybe.”
“I’m just saying... It’s possible you can’t handle whatever it is we’ve upset here.”
“We’ve woken nightmares.” Rezyl’s attention was singular; focused intently on the dark beyond the threshold.
“The Hive were supposed to be gone.” The Ghost mulled the full consequence of this mistaken belief. “They’ve been silent for—”
“They’re not silent anymore.”
“That scream? These doors? They’re best left alone.”
“I can’t do that.”
Rezyl continued forward. Toward the dark. Toward the unknown.
“Stay here.”
“Excuse me?”
“Get distance. We don’t know what this is... what’s coming. Can’t risk you too close to an unknown.”
“And if you fall where I can’t find you?”
“If I fall... If I don’t return. Run. Tell the others. Warn them all... There are worse things than pirates.”
Rezyl steadied his rifle and stepped into the dark, as his Ghost lingered.
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Hours passed. More? Time was lost in this place, and with it any remembrance of hope... of promise... of purpose in the longing for a brighter tomorrow.
Down amongst the shadows there were no tomorrows.
Down in the abyss there was no hope.
Rezyl’s footfalls echoed; lonely, measured steps with no guarantee of purchase. At any moment the world could fall away and he would be lost – the forgotten hero who foolishly sought nightmares.
Then, a presence. Sweeping and dream-like.
Rezyl leveled his rifle.
He could sense the witch, but found it impossible to track her in the dark.
Rezyl opened fire. Short, focused bursts to light the ebony corridor.
The demon witch circled just beyond the reach of each burst’s glow.
Rezyl kept firing, using the short flickers of light to gain bearing.
The witch laughed and a thick black cloud engulfed Rezyl.
The Titan kept firing but his movements were restricted. The cloud confined him, caged him.
He could hear her moving just beyond his sight as her laughter rose in pitch, cutting into Rezyl’s mind and soul like a tempered blade.
Rezyl flinched as the wicked woman began to speak in a tongue that resembled torture more than language.
The pain was searing, complete.
The demon approached the writhing hero.
As she spoke her violent words began to take shape, morphing from syllables of death to a known offering of haunted human languages.
The demon woman leaned in close... and whispered, intimately.
Rezyl’s ears bled as she spoke.
"I am the end of 'morrows. Xyor, the Blessed. Xyor, the Betrothed. I am of the coming storm. These are not my words, but prophesy. Your Light will one day shatter and die. For now it simply offends... And you, dear, sweet, fragile thing, shall be made to suffer for your transgressions upon this holy ground."
As the witch fell silent, her hateful voice was replaced by a growing chorus of hungry, manic chittering and the rising thunder of an approaching flood.
Rezyl had come looking for the terrors that hide just beyond the light.
He found them.
Or, maybe...
...they found him.”[/spoiler]
If you do not know, in the year one Thorn Exotic Bounty, the last step was to do the Phogoth strike on hard difficulty, and kill the wizard, Xyor the Unwed, at the very end. Now this Xyor the Unwed is the same Xyor as the one in the grimoire card. This card also tells that Xyor corrupted Rezyl, forecasting that his light will become tainted and die, exactly like Dredgen Yor’s did. In conclusion, Rezyl Azzir and Dredgen Yor both met Xyor the Unwed, who forecasted their light would be corrupted.
I hope this post clears up the identity of Dredgen Yor, at least a little bit.
Grimoire Cards/Items Referenced:
[spoiler]The Cauldron: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-the-cauldron?highlight=Dredgen+Yor+warlock
Blind Watch: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-blind-watch?highlight=Dredgen+Yor+warlock
Legends and Mysteries: Rezyl Azzir: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/legends-and-mysteries-rezyl-azzir?highlight=Rezyl+azzir
Ghost Fragment: Thorn: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn?highlight=Thorn
Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn-2?highlight=Thorn
Ghost Fragment: Thorn 3: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn-3?highlight=Thorn
Ghost Fragment: Thorn 4: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn-4?highlight=Thorn
Cloak of Dredgen Yor: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/cloak-of-dredgen-yor-2?highlight=Dredgen+Yor
Dredgen Yor's Rose: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/dredgen-yors-rose?highlight=Dredgen+Yor [/spoiler]
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Found this in the lore section a little bit ago. Someone else wrote this and it seemed to be a good explanation. Know that these are not my words. [quote]The connection isn't direct, but it is a lore-based explanation of how Xyor and Rezzyl meet without having to go through a bunch of shenanigans about class switching. 1) Based on the old Thorn quest it has been theorized Xyor is the creator of the weapons of sorrow. Most people probably agree on this regardless of who they think Rezzyl Azzir is. 2) There are 2 confirmed weapons of sorrow created by the Hive (Bad Juju being a knockoff created by Toland): Necrochasm and Thorn. Nobody really disagrees about this either. 3) Necrochasm is an auto rifle. Rezzyl Azzir's primary weapon is an auto rifle. Thorn is a hand cannon. Dredgen Yor's primary weapon is a hand cannon. Also not really a subject of debate, it's explicitly said so in the grimoire. So here we have 3 facts that pretty much everyone agrees on. We then have the following 2 story lines: 1) Rezzyl Azzir the Titan is a hero of the City who fell victim to his own hubris and curiosity. Captured by the Hive he was eventually killed and Xyor creates the Necrochasm from his AR, consistent with the Necrochasm grimoire card: [quote]a lost Guardian’s weapon was altered by the Hive in an attempt to fuse their own dark understanding with humanity’s mastery of war.[/quote] 2) Dredgen Yor is a fallen Hunter who's original name has been purged from the record. For reasons unknown he became obsessed with the darkness and went to the moon. Yor's handcannon, Rose, was "augmented through dark practices" and was part of his downfall. Finally, let's discuss Xyor's title. When Azzir meets her, she is " the bethrothed". To whom? When we kill her later, she is "the unwed". Was the person she was bethrothed killed in the meantime? In that case it isn't Crota, he is still alive when the Thorn quest was created. Perhaps it's Dredgen Yor. [/quote]
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Just food for thought here, not trying to prove or disprove this, but here goes. I'd like to start by saying, yes, I know that Rezyl used a hand cannon and just because it was only mentioned once doesn't mean he only used it once. However, with Rose/Thorn being important enough to have a name, wouldn't Rose have been mentioned as Rezyl's hand cannon? I mean it seems pretty damn important to Dredgen Yor's whole identity, yet Rezyl's handcannon is only mentioned in passing and is pretty clearly a run of the mill weapon. Of course, they could've intentionally NOT mentioned it or its name, to add mystery to it. This seems to be one of the stories Bungie doesn't want you to ever get a real answer to, at least not for a while. Anyways, just looking for input. Like I said, I'm not on either side of this, I'm just trying to look at this somewhat objectively.
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he was a warlock because Hunters don't really have ties to madness and power like warlocks do. Also, brother Vance is a hunter and he's dressed like a warlock. He says so himself that he's a hunter.
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由bobswerski編輯: 1/26/2017 2:51:44 PMIt's not the most sound theory of them all, you're seriously overselling that. 1) Dredgen Yor is (or at the bare minimum [i]was[/i]) a hunter. He has not one, but 2 hunter items named for him. How that can [i]possibly[/i] be written off as less convincing than the idea that more than 1 guardian ever went to the Moon and met Xyor simply boggles the mind. The existence of the hunter items [b]is fact[/b]. The [i]assumption[/i] that nobody but Yor ever met Xyor [b]is not[/b]. 2) Rezzyl Azzir is a Titan. That's a direct quote from the grimoire and not up for debate. 3) The Hunter-specific exotic weapon is a [u]handcannon[/u]. Dredgen Yor primarily used a [u]handcannon[/u]. [i]Thorn[/i] is a [u]handcannon[/u]. 4) The Titan-specific exotic weapon is an [u]auto rifle[/u]. Rezzyl Azzir primarily used an [u]auto rifle[/u]. [i]Necrochasm[/i] is an [u]auto rifle[/u]. [b][i]Two[/i] different guardians, [i]Two[/i] different weapon types that are linked to their respective classes, [i]Two[/i] different weapons of sorrow created/corrupted by the Hive.[/b]
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My god, if Destiny and Netflix ever team up, and create episodes with TTK cinematic level of animation, for all of these lore posts....the world will weep.
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There's just one issue with the Rezzyl theory. Xyor said the light would be tainted and die. That could mean he either became Yor, or perhaps just that, his light was tainted by the hive, and he died his final death.
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由The Muzzy98編輯: 1/27/2017 2:54:21 AMI just want to throw out something that a lot of people seem to forget. Dredgen Yor forged the Thorn on the Moon. People often argue that because Rezyl uses an auto rifle, he couldn't have been the wielder of Thorn. Well, maybe that's because [i]Thorn hadn't been created yet.[/i]
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The Witch corrupting both Rezyl and Yor is more than likely just a coincidence. One similar experience is not enough to say for certain that Rezyl is Yor. If Rezyl used a hand canon then I might be more convinced. If there was any mention of him dominating the Crucible then I'd believe it. But there is only one story that happens to line up between the two. It's not enough. But you did a good job presenting your theory.
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Rezzel used autos Although maybe that explains what became necrochasm Wait, maybe there is a "dregon yor" in at least the corruption for each primary weapon Rezzel- possibly necrochasm Dregon yor- thorn Toland?-bad juju? (He didn't really become corrupted by hive sorcery but he with out a doubt became obsessed with it) So that leaves the question who is the scout rifle and what is the fate of rezzel after his encounter
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Good post. My question is that, where in the lore does it say that a Guardian HAD to have a class? The classes are a limitation set by the Guardians, The Tower, The Speaker. The classes are meant to be set by the individuals ideas and ideals, their function and role. And yet we have potential evidence else where that abilities are not limited by this mindset. Felwinter is commonly depicted as a Warlock, buy one who learned to use Titan associated powers. Perhaps for those Guardians that live on the edge, are more free thinking, perhaps they are able to step outside the pre set walls of the Vanguard and the Tower. Who is to say that just because a Hunter devised the Golden Gun approach that a skilled Warlock might not one day learn to do so too. Why must Dredgen Yor be of any one class? If he was one of the greatest Titans to live, perhaps there was a point when he thought, let's mix things up a little. Real world equivalent, martial arts. It's all well and good mastering one style, but a true warrior understands and acknowledges it's flaws. They then seek out alternative styles and concepts. They develop. Long gone are the days of one style for life. Welcome to the post Bruce Lee world. Maybe Dredgen Yor is Destiny's Bruce Lee.
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由SancusXenon編輯: 1/25/2017 2:16:40 AMDredgen Yor's cloak isn't pahanins. It would've said so. Heck, it wouldn't even be called Cloak of Dredgen Yor. It'd be called Cloak of Pahanin, with the flavour text of "Ripped from his corpse by Dredgen Yor when he fell to his Thorn" or something like that. They did it with Thalors Mark. Why not do it with Pahanins cloak if it was actually his. Also, Reyzl couldn't be Yor. Even before he was corrupted, Yor ALWAYS had his handcannon with him, and ALWAYS used it as his primary weapon. Reyzl used an Auto as his primary, not a handcannon. As much as the rest matches up, that one detail derails that whole theory.
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Ok hold up, The warlock is [b]not[/b] wearing a Hunter cloak and that is [b]not[/b] a warlock helm. Don't know where you got that from. Maybe he was just corrupted yknow? Not turned into Dredgen Yor. There is more evidence going for him being a Hunter because of all the stuff he does. His artifacts, killing other Hunters, all that stuff.
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Dredgen Yor's cloak isn't pahanins. It would've said so. Heck, it wouldn't even be called Cloak of Dredgen Yor. It'd be called Cloak of Pahanin, with the flavour text of "Ripped from his corpse by Dredgen Yor when he fell to his Thorn" or something like that. They did it with Thalors Mark. Why not do it with Pahanins cloak if it was actually his.