原先發佈於:The Ashen Conflux
Welcome to my lore post about the directives and history of the time-traveling, planet-remodeling, headache-to-explain-anything-about beings that have conquered countless time streams.
The Vex
Today (December 27) is my birthday, so I decided to prepare a couple of posts in my Vex series to post on this day in celebration of the beginning of yet another year of my life. I hope you enjoy the read and learn a thing or two
The Vex consist of a machine containment vessel holding and being controlled by a radiolarian liquid (the Books of Sorrow refers to this biological liquid that makes up the Vex as Mind Fluid). This means that the Vex ARE NOT machines, they just have mechanical vessels, and can therefore be Taken. The Vex chassis (their bodies) and equipment are built for the purpose of construction, but can also be used for combat.
The Vex are constantly transforming the planets they conquer by building their structures and gate networks into them, turning them into part of their vast network with unknown purposes aside from universal domination. The only purpose they have that we know of is to find a way to weave themselves into time so that they will be ever-present and unable to be exterminated, and therefore rule all time streams.
Each Vex is of the same Mind Fluid, the same linked mind, and the same directives. This isn't a hive mind, where one entity commands the others; this is one mind shared throughout millions of vessels, but each vessel sees from a different perspective. Two Vex can see the same situation from two different angles and the whole system will then know every possible way to approach from those angles. It is one mind with millions of eyes. Larger Vex models have more Mind Fluid and therefore more of the mind collectively, so appear to command those with less Mind Fluid because they can compute more info than those with less Vex Jizz (had to include it since it's such a fun and common term). Vex can teleport from one star system to another in an instant, making them easily able to overwhelm enemies and prevent negative events. The Vex also use time gates, which can move them as quickly as teleporting but also allow them to move through time instead of only space.
Vex are capable of simulating almost any scenario that could possibly happen in a universe, and this gives them an incredible ability to predict and prepare for anything that their enemies do. Their one weakness is that they cannot simulate beings with a mind too big/complicated to simulate (Warminds were supposedly unable to be simulated because of their incredible intelligence, even though you'd expect Vex to have an easy time simulating something as logic-based as an AI) or a being who defies physics such as Guardians or Ascendant Hive. This allows Guardians and beings like Oryx to defeat the Vex because the Vex cannot efficiently adapt to something that they can't understand easily or predict at all. The Vex could just send dozens of units to attack at once and try to win by overwhelming these unpredictable beings, but it is often not worth the risk of losing so many units on the hope that they won't be defeated; the risks are too high for the Vex to use this method.
As observed by the scientists at the Ishtar Collective, the Vex control what happens in their simulations and basically play-God inside them. They could torture and attack the beings of their simulations if they wanted to. But they don't. The Vex change their simulations based completely off of what they logically believe should happen. The Vex will not being themselves to torture a simulated being out of nowhere and exhibit control as they could. The Vex do not know malice or hate like the humans, only cold logic and inference. They do not hate humans, we are just an obstacle in the way of their grand plans.
The Vex divide into subtypes to accomplish goals efficiently by assigning certain groups to certain tasks, thus eliminating the confusion of random assignment to tasks. In this way, different Vex Minds oversee different groups of Vex and share what progress they've made with the Collective Mind.
[b]The Vex timeline as we are aware of:[/b]
Vex structures are built into every celestial body that we know of, suggesting that they were somehow able to ingrain themselves into every world at the beginning of time, but we know that they travel throughout the universe creating constructs that establish a solid position within time and therefore make it as if they have always been. We do not know what time the Vex were originally built at, just that they were built in the Black Garden, but they have managed to spread both forwards and backwards through time as well as connecting their intelligence throughout other time streams. Now, the first recorded encounter with the Vex in our timeline is in the Book of Sorrows when Crota experiments with tears and accidentally opens up into a Vex gate system. The Vex then surged into the Dreadnaught and Quria, Blade Transform was built to exploit the physics of Oryx's throne world and become powerful and gain understanding through that. The Vex and Hive came to a stalemate where the Vex could no longer spread through the throne and the Hive could not chase them out, and Quria established itself at the outside end of the tear to keep it from closing. Quria obtained some Worm larvae and began experimenting, but only found worshiping the Darkness to have any chance of a beneficial outcome. Oryx eventually returned to his throne and chased out the Vex and Quria, then closed the year after throwing Crota through it. Oryx then put his throne into a Dreadnaught and eventually found the Nicha Thought-ship which he sought to get information from, but Quria laid a trap for him there. Quria was defeated and Taken by Oryx, then gifted to Savathûn. The Vault of Glass was created in imitation of Oryx's throne world and established a permanent place in time where the Vex exercise control over time, giving Atheon, the Templar, Oracles, and Gorgons immense power. When the humans began expanding during the Golden Age, they found Vex structures already on Venus, Mercury, and Mars that showed signs of being built long ago. The humans then encountered the Vex, but these Vex did not fight humans unless attacked first, showing that they probably found it adaptive to lay in wait for the opportune moment. Maya Sundaresh and her fellow Ishtar Collective scientists experimented on a Vex platform that they had captured (it seems to me like it was merely a Goblin or something of close relation), where they found that it could simulate them watching a simulation watching a simulation watching a simulation etc. until the point where there were at least 227 simulated worlds inside the thoughts of one Vex. The scientists rescued 227 copies of themselves from simulations and sent them into the Citadel to explore time. Maya later joined another group that formed after their project at the Ishtar Collective was terminated that sent people's minds into a Vex device. Eventually, through seeking ways to better withstand the mind splitting, they found that a mind inside a specific mechanical body improved results, and the Exo project was born (this group later became the FWC). The Vex started attacking humans as the Golden Age ended and the Collapse began, and soon they took Mercury and most of Mars and Venus, now fighting Exos built for the purpose of war with the Vex because of their advantages with the time gates. The Vex now stood with control of Mercury and most of Venus, and continue to fight to claim the rest of Venus and Mars. In the Black Garden, they grew an abomination of the Darkness known as the Heart (possibly one of the Worms captured by Quria or the result of one of Quria's experiments). They built three Minds to be manipulated by and utilize the power of the Heart once it was at full strength known as the Sol Progeny, which would be like Atheon except not limited to the Vault and erase all opposition in the universe. Our Guardian destroyed the Heart before it was strong enough to control all three parts of the Sol Progeny, then went on to kill Atheon and all other Vex Axis Minds in the system. The Vex still go on in our system, weakened from the loss of Axis Minds but still powerful and moving to complete their hidden tasks.
We know from the Stranger that in most timelines the Vex have already won because the Sol Divisive was not destroyed and occasionally for other reasons, and in almost all of the others the other forces of Darkness have won. Do not underestimate the Vex, or you could find yourself lost in the dark corners of time
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Vex Units and Subtypes:https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/220134487/0/0
Vex Axis Minds: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/220408908/0/0
For more lore and some stories, here's my master post:https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/217384398/0/0
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Just throwing some questions in although I fully admit not reading all the comments on this thread. I like to think that bungie put the vex in as a grand mystery of the most extreme case of super intelligence that the universe can conjure, kinda like a race becoming omnipotent. The questions I have I will try to keep relevant to the lore but I may avert from it. What if the vex have conquered other timelines that we are present in but not the timeline we play in? What if the vex use time travel to seed themselves in the primordial dust that gathers to create planets? Maybe the vex are not from the past at all but are in fact from the far future? I like the idea that there's a twist to their origins and that they might have been created by humans in the future, maybe from a form of Exo and the fact they have come back through time and interacted with us will lead to their inevitable demise in some paradoxical act, maybe that's why they can never truly destroy the human race? What if they actually don't have any form of leader or central intelligence but their connected minds act as a hive mind while the units singularly are able to think independently? What if the game is just a vex simulation?
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I just want to say that I extremely enjoy all of your posts and the fact that you take your time to research this stuff. I would just like to say thank you.
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If they can travel through time couldn't they have seen humans as a source of opposition and nuked earth in the stone age. Also, since the hive are also biological can't vex go back and destroy the budding hive
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I have one huge issue with this. You make a contradictory claim based on information. The Vex are time travelers at there most basic function. They are each essentially super computers, some being more like super servers. They are capable to compute a multitude of possibilities at once, including 227 inception style simulations. That was done by what is essentially a drone level Vex, the basic super computer. It is fair to say the larger Vex could handle even more simulations, possibly into the thousands or millions. With this grand computational power and time traveling ability, how can it be possible that the Vex can't understand/overpower guardians and taken? This is such a contradictory statement. Think of it like this: 1) If Vex can't understand/overpower guardians or taken upon initial encounter, they must therefore try to compute possibilities. 2) Vex apparently teleport/time travel at will. A single low level Vex can go back to initial encounter (lets say it's done every 10 minutes for the sake of numbers) and share the future calculations. Therefor, the Vex at the initial encounter are already 10 minutes ahead of the guardian or taken force. 3) Rinse and repeat with new information and calculations into infinity until such Vex appears with complete calculation 4) That Vex returns back 10 minutes with the accumulated calculations. This vex need not be the first Vex, since they all supposedly share 1 mind. 5) Final winning strategy has been achieved via multiple time reversals with more and more data. This ends up nullifying all lost Vex from future time line and loses are minimized to only those necessary to execute the winning strategy. Side note 6) If necessary, time skip forward to a point there is a more advanced Vex on the field to assist with calculations, and then skip back. This utilizes the maximum computation prowess of the Vex. There is no possible way the Vex should ever be capable of losing to guardians nor taken. The only winning strategy for us should be a total simultaneous wipe out of the forces encountered at that moment to prevent data from being sent back. For if you so much as encounter 2 Vex while alone, 1 can always time skip back with any calculations done from instance of encounter to time skip. Now you will face 3 Vex (2 being duplicates) in the initial encounter prior to you killing one. And the 3 may very well have all calculations based on the initial encounter early enough, and thus may result in your first target knowing it must avoid your attack. In short, the Vex are capable of doing one hell of a time paradox with the solution being their success unless totally wiped out at encounter. Their ability to seem immortal may very well stem from this time traveling ability; bringing a destroyed Vex forward in time to restore that unit's existence. This is just my own mental exercise based on their ability and claims of "not understanding." The Vex are, by all accounts, the superior creature in Destiny. I wouldn't be totally surprised if they orchestrated the creation of the "darkness" in some distant past time line to fight off the traveler on what they claim to be their planets. Only complete annihilation can stop them, or perhaps the "master computer" Vex where all data returns to. As a side thought on the Vex-SIVA connection made in some older posts: Who is to say that the Vex Jizz, as it was comically put, isn't a late stage SIVA evolution? Remember, SIVA is essentially stuck on a command that should have been terminated. The Vex may very well be the final form SIVA took to complete its command. From all I read about SIVA, it seems fairly plausible that given enough time, SIVA could develop self-awareness. It is a form of AI at its core. It is a low level AI with basic processing ability, but it was granted the ability to adapt to new circumstances. This adaption is basically evolution. Evolve enough times, and even a low level AI can develop into a sentient entity, even if it takes millennia. Considering the time traveling ability of Vex, it is very plausible SIVA evolved in the way distant future still running the command that made it start taking over everything and made the initial Vex to further its goal. It then gained mastery over time using the Vex computational abilities and they were sent back as far as possible to begin the complete domination of everything. Each Vex has enough evolved SIVA in it to function at its level. In this way, SIVA has accomplished its goal by taking over literally ever planet it was aware of. I have yet to see Vex in a SIVA infested area. Now this is most likely a dev decision, but perhaps lore-wise it is because the Vex have no reason to invade a SIVA infested area. They already know SIVA is them and to let it do what it needs to so it evolves into them. This doesn't prevent SIVA from being used by others (like the fallen did). But to the Vex, this just might be a necessary thing to achieve final evolution. This is all my own plausible conjecture based on nothing in established lore, but solely on what I feel is a potential end game result for SIVA. It would be cool if it is true though. I did one of these mental games in year one and was proven about 70% correct upon release of Taken King (in regards to the Traveler).
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[quote]Welcome to my lore post about the directives and history of the time-traveling, planet-remodeling, headache-to-explain-anything-about beings that have conquered countless time streams. The Vex Today (December 27) is my birthday, so I decided to prepare a couple of posts in my Vex series to post on this day in celebration of the beginning of yet another year of my life. I hope you enjoy the read and learn a thing or two The Vex consist of a machine containment vessel holding and being controlled by a radiolarian liquid (the Books of Sorrow refers to this biological liquid that makes up the Vex as Mind Fluid). This means that the Vex ARE NOT machines, they just have mechanical vessels, and can therefore be Taken. The Vex chassis (their bodies) and equipment are built for the purpose of construction, but can also be used for combat. The Vex are constantly transforming the planets they conquer by building their structures and gate networks into them, turning them into part of their vast network with unknown purposes aside from universal domination. The only purpose they have that we know of is to find a way to weave themselves into time so that they will be ever-present and unable to be exterminated, and therefore rule all time streams. Each Vex is of the same Mind Fluid, the same linked mind, and the same directives. This isn't a hive mind, where one entity commands the others; this is one mind shared throughout millions of vessels, but each vessel sees from a different perspective. Two Vex can see the same situation from two different angles and the whole system will then know every possible way to approach from those angles. It is one mind with millions of eyes. Larger Vex models have more Mind Fluid and therefore more of the mind collectively, so appear to command those with less Mind Fluid because they can compute more info than those with less Vex Jizz (had to include it since it's such a fun and common term). Vex can teleport from one star system to another in an instant, making them easily able to overwhelm enemies and prevent negative events. The Vex also use time gates, which can move them as quickly as teleporting but also allow them to move through time instead of only space. Vex are capable of simulating almost any scenario that could possibly happen in a universe, and this gives them an incredible ability to predict and prepare for anything that their enemies do. Their one weakness is that they cannot simulate beings with a mind too big/complicated to simulate (Warminds were supposedly unable to be simulated because of their incredible intelligence, even though you'd expect Vex to have an easy time simulating something as logic-based as an AI) or a being who defies physics such as Guardians or Ascendant Hive. This allows Guardians and beings like Oryx to defeat the Vex because the Vex cannot efficiently adapt to something that they can't understand easily or predict at all. The Vex could just send dozens of units to attack at once and try to win by overwhelming these unpredictable beings, but it is often not worth the risk of losing so many units on the hope that they won't be defeated; the risks are too high for the Vex to use this method. As observed by the scientists at the Ishtar Collective, the Vex control what happens in their simulations and basically play-God inside them. They could torture and attack the beings of their simulations if they wanted to. But they don't. The Vex change their simulations based completely off of what they logically believe should happen. The Vex will not being themselves to torture a simulated being out of nowhere and exhibit control as they could. The Vex do not know malice or hate like the humans, only cold logic and inference. They do not hate humans, we are just an obstacle in the way of their grand plans. The Vex divide into subtypes to accomplish goals efficiently by assigning certain groups to certain tasks, thus eliminating the confusion of random assignment to tasks. In this way, different Vex Minds oversee different groups of Vex and share what progress they've made with the Collective Mind. [b]The Vex timeline as we are aware of:[/b] Vex structures are built into every celestial body that we know of, suggesting that they were somehow able to ingrain themselves into every world at the beginning of time, but we know that they travel throughout the universe creating constructs that establish a solid position within time and therefore make it as if they have always been. We do not know what time the Vex were originally built at, just that they were built in the Black Garden, but they have managed to spread both forwards and backwards through time as well as connecting their intelligence throughout other time streams. Now, the first recorded encounter with the Vex in our timeline is in the Book of Sorrows when Crota experiments with tears and accidentally opens up into a Vex gate system. The Vex then surged into the Dreadnaught and Quria, Blade Transform was built to exploit the physics of Oryx's throne world and become powerful and gain understanding through that. The Vex and Hive came to a stalemate where the Vex could no longer spread through the throne and the Hive could not chase them out, and Quria established itself at the outside end of the tear to keep it from closing. Quria obtained some Worm larvae and began experimenting, but only found worshiping the Darkness to have any chance of a beneficial outcome. Oryx eventually returned to his throne and chased out the Vex and Quria, then closed the year after throwing Crota through it. Oryx then put his throne into a Dreadnaught and eventually found the Nicha Thought-ship which he sought to get information from, but Quria laid a trap for him there. Quria was defeated and Taken by Oryx, then gifted to Savathûn. The Vault of Glass was created in imitation of Oryx's throne world and established a permanent place in time where the Vex exercise control over time, giving Atheon, the Templar, Oracles, and Gorgons immense power. When the humans began expanding during the Golden Age, they found Vex structures already on Venus, Mercury, and Mars that showed signs of being built long ago. The humans then encountered the Vex, but these Vex did not fight humans unless attacked first, showing that they probably found it adaptive to lay in wait for the opportune moment. Maya Sundaresh and her fellow Ishtar Collective scientists experimented on a Vex platform that they had captured (it seems to me like it was merely a Goblin or something of close relation), where they found that it could simulate them watching a simulation watching a simulation watching a simulation etc. until the point where there were at least 227 simulated worlds inside the thoughts of one Vex. The scientists rescued 227 copies of themselves from simulations and sent them into the Citadel to explore time. Maya later joined another group that formed after their project at the Ishtar Collective was terminated that sent people's minds into a Vex device. Eventually, through seeking ways to better withstand the mind splitting, they found that a mind inside a specific mechanical body improved results, and the Exo project was born (this group later became the FWC). The Vex started attacking humans as the Golden Age ended and the Collapse began, and soon they took Mercury and most of Mars and Venus, now fighting Exos built for the purpose of war with the Vex because of their advantages with the time gates. The Vex now stood with control of Mercury and most of Venus, and continue to fight to claim the rest of Venus and Mars. In the Black Garden, they grew an abomination of the Darkness known as the Heart (possibly one of the Worms captured by Quria or the result of one of Quria's experiments). They built three Minds to be manipulated by and utilize the power of the Heart once it was at full strength known as the Sol Progeny, which would be like Atheon except not limited to the Vault and erase all opposition in the universe. Our Guardian destroyed the Heart before it was strong enough to control all three parts of the Sol Progeny, then went on to kill Atheon and all other Vex Axis Minds in the system. The Vex still go on in our system, weakened from the loss of Axis Minds but still powerful and moving to complete their hidden tasks. We know from the Stranger that in most timelines the Vex have already won because the Sol Divisive was not destroyed and occasionally for other reasons, and in almost all of the others the other forces of Darkness have won. Do not underestimate the Vex, or you could find yourself lost in the dark corners of time _____________________________________ Vex Units and Subtypes:https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/220134487/0/0 For more lore and some stories, here's my master post:https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/217384398/0/0[/quote] Same
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由Logic1356編輯: 12/28/2016 3:00:25 PMIf the vex can predict anything, like the attack on the vault of glass, then how aren't they indestructible?
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I wonder if during that cutscene, with the Stranger on Venus when she is interrupted and has to leave to help someone, she is actually talking to you on another timeline or in the future. That's probably not true.. But it would be cool :)
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由Excarkun編輯: 12/27/2016 10:59:15 PMThe Vex where originally going to controlled and part of the traveler. The time travel or time controlling crap was last minute add on patch job..to hurry up get game out. BS..if they where TIME MATERS THEN they would NEVER let One pesky gardian or small group of six defeat them .they'll use time travel to kill you off at birth..and stack everything in their favor...AS MASTERS.
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