原先發佈於:Sapphire
>People bitch and moan about gun rights advocates "dance on the graves of dead people" when they mention guns in a positive light.
>Dance on the graves of dead people hours after a shooting by pushing their gun control agenda
>"Hurr Gun rights advocates support killing children!"
Guns DO save lives. I have no problem with this. If you get emotionally unstable at the thought of other people exercising their rights, that's your problem.
English
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由Section Ratio General編輯: 10/13/2013 8:51:43 PMSo, setting up a holiday dedicated to guns in a town that went through a tragedy due to guns is a way of honoring them? That's equivalent to going to a Jewish church and praising the Holocaust to honor fallen Jews.
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[quote]So, setting up a holiday dedicated to guns in a town that went through a tragedy due to guns is a way of honoring them? [/quote] Last time I checked, the holiday was to honor those lives that were saved because of guns, not the other way around.
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In a city where a massacre happened due to guns. Yeah, that's [i]definitely[/i] not trying to stir some controversy. If it was in a place that wasn't ravaged by a tragic event due to guns, then it would be better. But in a town that was a victim to it? Be right back, I'll go praise the Holocaust to Jewish people during Passover just because I want to honor the Jews that died in the chambers.
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Except for the part where there was never any massacre that happened because of guns. I forgot to read the news article where a gun walked itself into a building, pulled the trigger without the help of a person, and killed someone. Please stop being an idiot.
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[quote]Except for the part where there was never any massacre that happened because of guns.[/quote] Oh my god, the stupidity in this post just made a few of my brain cells commit suicide. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting]Let's revisit this[/url]. [quote]Sandy Hook Elementary [b][u]School shooting[/b][/u][/quote]Yeah, the guy was shooting cameras and filming, not using guns. [quote]On December 14, 2012, 20-year-old Adam Lanza fatally shot twenty children and six adult staff members in a mass murder at Sandy Hook Elementary School in the village of Sandy Hook in Newtown, Connecticut.[5][6] Before driving to the school, Lanza shot and killed his mother Nancy at their Newtown home.[8][10][11] As first responders arrived, he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.[/quote] Definitely because he shot the kids, his mother, as well as himself with a camera. Let's make this a facebook photo post! [quote][u]It was the second deadliest mass shooting by a single person in American history, after the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre[/u], and the second deadliest mass murder at a U.S. elementary school, after the 1927 Bath School bombings in Michigan.[12][13] The shootings prompted renewed debate about gun control in the United States, and a proposal for new legislation banning the sale and manufacture of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and magazines with more than ten rounds of ammunition.[14][/quote] Wait, it wasn't about a camera? Damn you, media! You lied to me, it was about someone using a gun to kill kids! [quote]Some time before 9:30 a.m. EST on Friday, December 14, 2012, Lanza shot dead his mother, Nancy Lanza, aged 52, at their Newtown home.[11] Investigators later found her body, clad in pajamas, in her bed with four gunshot wounds to her head.[19] Lanza then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School[/quote] Oh, he must have shot his mother with a camera. Wait, gunshot wounds? Hmm, it was definitely not because of a gun! [quote]At about 9:35 am, using his mother's [b][u]Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle[/u][/b],[20][21][22] Lanza shot his way through a locked glass door at the front of the school.[23][24] He was wearing black clothing, earplugs and an olive green utility vest, carrying magazines for the rifle.[25][26] Initial reports that he had been wearing body armor were incorrect.[27] Some of those present heard initial shots on the school intercom system, which was being used for morning announcements.[16][/quote]Bolded and underlined. Hm, that must be a model for a camera, not a gun. Sounds suspicious. [quote]Lanza entered a first-grade classroom where Lauren Rousseau, a substitute teacher, had herded her first grade students to the back of the room and was trying to hide them in a bathroom.[32] Rousseau and fifteen students in her class were killed; a six-year-old girl was the sole survivor. The girl's family pastor said that she survived the mass shooting by playing dead and remaining still. When she reached her mother, she said, "Mommy, I'm okay, but all my friends are dead." The child described the shooter as a very angry man.[38] Teacher's aide Rachel D'Avino, who had been employed for a week at the school to work with a special-needs student, also died trying to protect her students.[39][/quote] Oh god, what kind of monster would take a picture of all these kids? No? it was a gun? I see, even though I own a gun, people on the right that aren't for gun control have a lot of common sense. It makes me feel bad that I have to associate myself with people on the right because I own a gun. Maybe I can sell off my .22 to Gunrunner.
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由Section Ratio General編輯: 10/13/2013 11:43:28 PMAh, to be young and ignorant of the post. I'm blaming the people who are advocating this holiday for being insensitive, which is a fact. But then again, it's the Off-Topic. I don't see logical posts coming out of people who are very open about guns other than the picture [url=https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/794471680/hA1D66038/]here[/url], which I can easily see as all people advocating for no restrictions on guns. But hey, if there's no limitation on guns, that means I can carry around an RPG or an AK47 because it's an "inanimate object" and I'm smart enough to know not to shoot it. Let's sum up my posts in a single sentence, just for you and your gun toting friends: The people who are celebrating an object meant for killing are bad and they should feel bad for celebrating it on the anniversary of the massacre of 20+ children.
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>your feels trump their rights? they have a right to counter protest as they should see fit, as long as they abide with any and all applicable laws. if the news media and politicians can offensively stand on the graves of dead children to further their agenda, why should these people not be allowed to do the same? they at least had the common courtesy to give the families a grieving and mourning period, unlike those before them. and just how would the new laws proposed in January have helped to stop newtown from happening? he was using AWB compliant guns in an AWB state. he stole the guns he used after commiting murder to illegally obtain them. he couldn't buy guns himself/ tried and was denied for severe autism and suspicious behavior weeks before newtown. it's not no restrictions, just that "common sense"spin and other buzz words aren't truth, and are in fact all bullshit spun by highly corrupt politicians. all the proposed new restrictions boil down to assault weapon= "ban it, it is black and scary!" and the "90%" is scientifically false and debunked no matter how many times anyone want to parrot it: actually closer to 45% of 3900 residents of PA NJ and NY and only from the middle of wealthy and very low crime, mostly only white areas to begin with, where there are very few guns per capita. they were not asked about support for UBC or any sort of AWB, only if they supported (the already occurring) background checks and background checks occurring at gun shows. all licensed dealers do background checks whether they be in store or out of store at a trade show as per the law. half of the vendors at "gun shows" would be sellers of trinkets, knives, jerky, accessories, or leather products anyways. correct, the person determines the action, not the object. a semiauto AKM clone with softpoints would be a perfect hunting rifle for feral hogs or medium sized deer so, yes, i do think you should be able to own and carry one in a legal manner as determined by your state laws. it is a semi-auto rifle no different from any other except the media takes great lengths to demonize it.
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[quote]In a city where a massacre happened due to guns. Yeah, that's definitely not trying to stir some controversy. If it was in a place that wasn't ravaged by a tragic event due to guns, then it would be better. But in a town that was a victim to it? [/quote] Connecticut has some of the most bullshit emotionally pushed gun restrictions in the country, even more so in Newton because of it. With people having this paranoia of guns you could eventually create a system where people think guns are bad. Furthermore guns did not cause the shooting, a deranged mentally ill madman did. That's another bloated argument I'm tired of seeing. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Nothing was going to stop this man from finding out a way to go on a massacre. Hell, schools in China suffer from random knife stabbing attacks from deranged killers, no guns involved there. [quote]Be right back, I'll go praise the Holocaust to Jewish people during Passover just because I want to honor the Jews that died in the chambers. [/quote] I don't know much about the country of Israel, but I'm pretty sure The Shoah Museum isn't closed on Passover.
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Well, people with guns kill people... using guns. Do you know what the homicide rate is in China? 1.0 per 100,000. It's 4.7/100k in the US, 3.5/100k in India, 2.1 in Israel 1.2 in the UK, 1.1 in France, 1.0 in Australia, 0.8 in Germany, 0.4 in Japan. Finland, one of the most prolific gun owning countries in Europe, has a rate of 2.2. That's half the rate of the US but nearly double the homicide rate of the UK, more than double that of Sweden (1.0) or Denmark (0.9), nearly 4x that of Norway (0.6) and over 7x that of Iceland (0.3). Switzerland is eternally the example gun advocates use with 0.7, but that ignores the fact that Switzerland actually take the militia point seriously. Every adult male in Switzerland is trained to military standards and required to practise regularly. Poverty is low and they're extremely xenophobic about immigrants. People still go nuts and go on mass killings, of course. It's like you've never bothered to actually look this shit up you just use anecdotes.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebei_tractor_rampage no calls to ban construction equipment? strange >but it's useful to society and? guns are legally used defensively millions of times a year vs a few thousand criminally and probably billions of times a year in legal recreation. Finland also has a lot of suicides just as japan does; massive boredom and inbreeding does that to a country. blades, skyscrapers, and trains are used there instead a lot more. >muh muhlisha argument (see pic related; it's a grammatical analysis) invalid/historically revisionist. at the time there was no standing army so every male aged 17-45 who wasn't a cripple was well understood to be a part of the Militia. hell their diaries and documents prove this. and in 1903 when the organized militia was legally codified, the national guard was the organized militia, and the unorganized militia was every eligible male aged 18-45. if that wasn't true there would be no draft/selective service.
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I fear you're implying things I never said. I haven't claimed that the Second Amendment only enshrines the right to own guns to those in the militia. Requiring all those who wish to own guns to actually be properly trained in their use? Yeah, sounds good to me. I merely stated that Switzerland [i]does[/i] require males to be trained reservists unless there is a reason for excluding them. Finland also requires conscription, something I know a lot of teenage Finns try to avoid. 1903? The original militia act dates back to 1792. The 1903 one simply changed it from states militias into a national guard while organising where it fitted into the standing army. The words "well regulated" are somewhat important. A disorganised militia is unlikely to be well regulated. Still, not really important. I avoided any discussion of constitutionality for two reasons: one, I'm not American and think you chaps put far too much importance in something written by a group of rich Englishmen over 200 years ago and two, it's about the least productive way to argue anything. Arguments over grammar from 200 years ago are tedious at best, involve a lot of researching around a subject and the second amendment ultimately descends from a medieval law that required yeomen to practise with a longbow every Sunday. In fact, most of the US constitution descends from English law and traditions - the English Bill of Rights, parts of the Magna Carta, and a body of legal precedent and tradition. While in the UK we have an uncodified constitution in which parliament is sovereign - nothing can bind Parliament's will in any way, shape or form except parliament itself choosing to be bound - in the US you have what was once a rather spectacular document that is in need of some serious rewriting in places (I'm looking at you, electoral college) that is held in reverence and awe by all despite the fact there are days I wonder how many Americans have even read the damn thing. It's not even a long read. Comparing it to the Bible is easy and probably rather apt. Would I probably favour a reading that would treats "a well regulated militia" as the integral meaning of the entire sentence? Yes I would. The right of the people to bear arms exists because a well regulated militia is required. Private individuals owning, maintaining and practising with their weapons ensures that there is a body to call on when needed. If you absolutely must have the right to bear arms, then you can damn well be trained how to use, maintain and properly store them. Everyone wanting to own a firearm should undergo proper training so they can handle the firearm they wish to own to a good standard. This should, preferably, be paid by the government as requiring people to pay money to exercise their constitutional rights is asking for a poll tax scenario. Teach proper gun safety and use during high school, require a certain number of hours at a range with a qualified instructor and basically make damn sure not just any idiot can buy a gun. Greater regulation of the sales of guns as well as some level of federal registration is constitutional (dates back to the early 1800s, after all) and a better background check system is important. Requiring private sellers to run background checks (preferably by providing a government service free of charge) is important, as is improving the standard of background checks. Just about everyone has the internet nowadays, so recording a transfer of ownership as well as a background check is hardly the most strenuous of things. Suicide rates in countries where it gets very dark for long periods of winter and very light during summer are far higher than average. Construction equipment rampages happen, yep. Poor mental health care is pretty much standard the world over. Suicides in Japan are about twice as common as the US and partly to do with their rather peculiar social structure, the intense stress and pressure to succeed and the fact that men basically never see their wives. There's a rather peculiar mental illness that develops in wives once their husbands retire and they actually have to put up with their husbands. The statistic that guns are used defensively millions of time per year is one you're going to have fun substantiating. It comes from a 1995 study that has serious methodological flaws (chiefly that at no point did any of the studies it sampled from bother to define what "use" was) and given the huge drop in crime since the data was gathered is rather outdated. Sorry for the wall, it's 4am.
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Unfortunately no matter how many stats I post they're still going to go on the same. Opposing their point of view and presenting evidence contrary to it just makes their belief stronger. We could have fun and see if they're opposed to vaccines, don't believe in global warming, don't believe man landed on the moon or various other craziness.
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I don't understand the fuss about "assault rifles". Hand guns are far, far more of a concern as far as homicides go and Sandy Hook was rather unusual in the fact that he only used the pistol to kill himself. Generally speaking rifles aren't a very common murder weapon - over 1/2 of all homicides in the US are committed with hand guns. I am entirely in favour of banning handguns. Hell, I'm a Brit, I don't think police officers should have guns, tasers or pepper spray unless they've gone through a rigorous training period. Police officers shouldn't carry guns unless authorised and every incident involving a firearm should be responded to by what amounts to a SWAT team. I'm curious what "firearm, type not stated" means though, as the rate of them has exploded in recent years. Shotguns, rifles, other amount to 756 while not stated was more than double that. A federal ban on handguns except for those who jump through some not inconsiderable hoops to own one? Yeah, I'm good with that.
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由Section Ratio General編輯: 10/13/2013 9:21:14 PM[quote]Connecticut has some of the most bullshit emotionally pushed gun restrictions in the country, even more so in Newton because of it. With people having this paranoia of guns you could eventually create a system where people think guns are bad. [/quote] Yeah, let's just completely forget 20+ children died and let's honor guns to say that those children are safe in our memories because of guns. [quote]Furthermore guns did not cause the shooting, a deranged mentally ill madman did. That's another bloated argument I'm tired of seeing. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Nothing was going to stop this man from finding out a way to go on a massacre. Hell, schools in China suffer from random knife stabbing attacks from deranged killers, no guns involved there. [/quote] If I had a penny for every single time I heard this argument, I'd be a -blam!-ing trillionaire, and even quicker than Bill Gates. Was a gun used as an instrument to kill these children in this Newtown Massacre? Yes. Should they celebrate it in the town? Well, seeing as a whole bunch of children got [u]slaughtered[/u] because someone opened fire on the children using a gun that was obtained legally, yeah, let's do that. Let's also go to an Indian Reservation and celebrate the Trail of Tears. Let's go to a Jewish house and celebrate the Holocaust. Let's celebrate slavery in a NAACP meeting. Let's celebrate a nuclear bomb in Japan. Let's also celebrate the Cartel and worship them in Mexico to honor Mexicans. [quote]I don't know much about the country of Israel, but I'm pretty sure The Shoah Museum isn't closed on Passover.[/quote] Yeah, go be an insensitive bitch elsewhere. No one wants you in this thread. Edit: Also, use some goddamned common sense. If someone killed your family with guns, would you want someone to parade around your house celebrating guns and shooting them outside your house to honor them? They'd also go to your doorstep and praise guns even though they know your family got massacred by someone using a gun.
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[quote]using a gun that was obtained legally[/quote]verified bullshit. Fact check: murder is illegal. he had to murder his mother to obtain those guns. he committed a crime in obtaining them. he illegally obtained them.
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[quote]Yeah, let's just completely forget 20+ children died and let's honor guns to say that those children are safe in our memories because of guns. [/quote] No one said you had to forget them, but no one said you have to remember them with this. If you want to take time out of that day to remember them do it YOUR way, no one is forcing you to celebrate guns that day just because they are. [quote]If I had a penny for every single time I heard this argument, I'd be a -blam!-ing trillionaire, and even quicker than Bill Gates. Was a gun used as an instrument to kill these children in this Newtown Massacre? Yes. Should they celebrate it in the town? Well, seeing as a whole bunch of children got slaughtered because someone opened fire on the children using a gun that was obtained legally, yeah, let's do that. Let's also go to an Indian Reservation and celebrate the Trail of Tears. Let's go to a Jewish house and celebrate the Holocaust. Let's celebrate slavery in a NAACP meeting. Let's celebrate a nuclear bomb in Japan. Let's also celebrate the Cartel and worship them in Mexico to honor Mexicans. [/quote] Once again you're making the statement that we're celebrating the death of these kids. We're not and you're sick for even suggesting we are. There's nothing wrong with taking time out to celebrate the lives that were NOT lost because of guns. Stop flipping it the other way around. [quote]Yeah, go be an insensitive bitch elsewhere. No one wants you in this thread. [/quote] Well that escalated quickly. You're the one being a bitch, and to answer your question, I wouldn't give a damn. It's their right to do so and I'm not gonna stomp on them because their activities have nothing to do with a family member of mine that died from a deranged madman. Hell, I'd even go out there with them cause it's no secret that I'm a strong gun rights advocate. Seriously, grow up. No one is celebrating the death of children with this and no one is forcing you too. You want to honor them? Do it, but if people want to honor the lives that were saved by guns [u][i]which has nothing to do with the death of these kids[/i][/u], stay out of it, it clearly isn't for you.
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[quote]No one said you had to forget them, but no one said you have to remember them with this. If you want to take time out of that day to remember them do it YOUR way, no one is forcing you to celebrate guns that day just because they are. [/quote] Yet, you're supporting a holiday that completely ignores the fact that children were massacred because "-blam!- children my 2nd amendment rights hurr hurr". Practice what you preach. [quote]Once again you're making the statement that we're celebrating the death of these kids. We're not and you're sick for even suggesting we are. There's nothing wrong with taking time out to celebrate the lives that were NOT lost because of guns. Stop flipping it the other way around.[/quote] You're celebrating a goddamned instrument that is used to kill, and which was used to kill children in this tragic event. Why celebrate a -blam!-ing gun? It hasn't done anything and it's often associated with tragedy. Is your mind that clouded and are you that much of a prick to not see how the people of Newtown are actually feeling about this holiday? [quote]Well that escalated quickly. You're the one being a bitch, and to answer your question, I wouldn't give a damn. It's their right to do so and I'm not gonna stomp on them because their activities have nothing to do with a family member of mine that died from a deranged madman. Hell, I'd even go out there with them cause it's no secret that I'm a strong gun rights advocate. [/quote] Ah, allow me to go to your mother's grave when she dies and let me dance and piss on it as well as set it on fire since you won't give a damn about it. Since you're already proving yourself to be insensitive towards controversial holidays such as this, I already know where this is going to lead. I've already reported your posts in this thread for being completely insensitive. There's a fine line between trolling on the internet and doing so because you're being a prick. You've already stated your stance on gun control, and you've already pretty much implied that you're for this holiday, which conflicts with the Newtown Massacre. You're not trolling, you're projecting your views and being an insensitive bitch about it. [quote]Seriously, grow up.[/quote] Oh the -blam!-ing irony in this sentence. [quote]No one is celebrating the death of children with this and no one is forcing you too.[/quote] Yet, this foundation doesn't mind celebrating it on a tragic day that was broadcasted all over America. Can I celebrate 9/11 and say that the people in the Twin Towers as well as the families of the people in the plane deserved it for being there? [quote]You want to honor them? Do it, but if people want to honor the lives that were saved by guns which has nothing to do with the death of these kids, stay out of it, it clearly isn't for you.[/quote]So, while you honor an instrument that doesn't do a single thing, just to celebrate your rights that no one is even considering taking away from you, let's also celebrate that holiday on the exact same day that a bunch of kids were massacred. Maybe I should celebrate planes and explosions on 9/11 to honor people who were saved by planes and explosions. Seriously. Use some common sense. You claim to have a lot of it in the Public forums, but from this thread, you're lacking that common sense you're so confident that you have.