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由Titan Skate編輯: 10/3/2022 11:01:41 PM
28

PvE Super Damage Sandbox Balance Issues

Hello I would like to bring some attention towards the balance of supers and their damage values in PvE activities. Currently there are some outliers in the game that make running other supers that accomplish a similar goal useless. These outliers include: Blade Barrage Gathering Storm Marksman Golden Gun As you can see these are all Hunter supers but I swear that I am trying to minimize all bias and try to look at things logically. Here are my main gripes with these supers. Blade Barrage: Faster charge time than nova bomb/Thundercrash, but does more than a Cuirass Thundercrash and more than 2x the damage of a nova bomb. Gathering Storm: By default does almost the same damage as a Cuirass Thundercrash (while also being ranged), and almost 2x the damage of a nova bomb. Marksman Golden Gun: Can generate 6 big orbs of power without needing to get a kill. This can lead to infinite super chaining. These supers are about 70% even better when paired with Star-Eater Scales, making the BY FAR the highest damage and DPS supers in Destiny 2, leaving no room for competition. I would either like nova bomb, chaos reach and Thundercrash improved to these levels or these supers brought down. There are also many supers that are basically useless in PvE. These include: Day Break Sentinel Shield Fist of Havoc Chaos Reach Spectral Blades Deadshot Golden Gun Storm Trance Day break: Rhis supers damage is pitiful, especially since it is a Tier 1 super meaning that it charges the slowest out of all supers. This super used to be able to extend its duration on kills but is no longer able to, making it very bad for general enemy clearing. Sentinel Shield: This super has something very powerful, which is the 40% weapon damage buff it grants to teammates. However, this super lacks greatly when it comes to solo play as its duration, and damage, are very lacking for a tier 2 super. Fist of Havoc: This super has gotten recently buffed, but it has proven to be not enough. It uses too much super energy per attack to be useful for enemy clearance while doing less than ideal damage. It gains damage by requiring air time on the heavy attack to make it even usable which makes it very clunky to use. Chaos Reach: This super is in an extremely bad spot right now as it does extremely low damage for the time that it forces you to be in the super, even with geomag stabilizers. This super does less than half of blade barrage while also taking 4 seconds to use. Spectral Blades: This super recently got a big buff in PvE for its damage potential. I believe this can still be improved. The main thing holding this super back is it’s very slow charge time (tier 1) and the fact that it lasts a very short duration, especially when attacking. Deadshot Golden Gun: This super makes running ember of combustion mandatory for it to be remotely usable, while also not doing enough damage to minor/major enemies to fulfill its goal of general enemy clearance. Storm Trance: This super excels at clearing low level enemies in regular content but it falls of severely in higher end content as it’s damage is extremely lacking. A buff against minor/major enemies would greatly help this super. Please let me know what you think below and share your own ways of balancing the sandbox of supers

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  • The thing there is. All those supers do that high damage to a single target that they hit. Nova bomb and thundercrash do ALL their damage to ALL targets in the area. Same with chaos reach since it pierces. So while it is true they do more to a single target. The nova and crash are much better vs multiple high health enemies like multiple champions or ultra's in 1 area. Also ..lets not even start on the titan storm grenades outdamaging most supers. Also...hunter is classified as the rogue/assasin class... And assasins in every game do the highest single target damage. So it fits.

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    • i think in the relm of rock paper siccors its as balance as it can be. Hunters are DPS Titans are the speedy tank add clear warlocks are healers. Warlock dragon ball z move cant be buff tell they figure out the lag advantage people problem.

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      • Wait, did you say thundercrash crash does twice as much as a nova bomb? First that's a joke. Second thundercrash with the chest plate does about as much damage maybe less then Hunters golden gun helmet. Titans thundercrash without the chest plate does about the same as a nova bomb but because of mechanic it give it the edge like Hunters new throw stick super

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      • 由Gibbon, the Ape Defector編輯: 10/5/2022 10:17:53 AM
        I completely hear you on those strong outliers at the beginning. It doesn't seem fair because other supers usually have utility at the cost of damage, but those supers have utility [i]and[/i] the highest damage. But regarding the supers that need help, consider this: We are okay with the idea of pvp-focused weapons, endgame-focused archetypes, and so on. In the weapon dept, we accept that certain weapons are only good in certain places. So why are supers exempt from this notion? I don't think every subclass needs to have strong qualities like endgame, dps, and pvp viability between the two supers available. [i]That's why there are options.[/i] If you don't have what you need within a given super, then choose the other super, or choose a different subclass, which gives you 5 other super options. Or, choose a different character, which then gives you 14 other super options. And this is not to mention abilities and identities that change drastically from one subclass to the next. I don't think the "bad super list" has bad supers. They are just being used improperly, or they don't have as many meta qualities. But that doesn't make them bad, it just makes them niche. And don't you think that filling the created niches should be the goal of a build-crafting game? P.S.: With regard to practicality, I don't think supers other than your outlier list are useless because of the meta-ness of those in your list. I think the better way of looking at it is that other supers are still good, but those outliers are stronger than you need to succeed, if not completely overkill. So still use the other supers because they are enough; you don't need to use something meta because "well, it would be stupid not to". The stuff one step behind the meta is a lot better than people realize.

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        • This is an issue that definitely needs to be looked at by bungie, and probably should’ve been looked at beforehand. When bungie changed things around with 3.0 to my knowledge they left all of the cooldowns for supers the same. It’s why daybreak for example is still a t1 super despite being heavily nerfed for 3.0.

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          • Don’t forget Shadebinder. While it’s Add clear is great WITH Iceflare bolts, it’s single target(even majors) is lacking. Would love to have a exotic that continues to cause shatter when hit by a freeze/shatter combo. Scaling to 1-2 shatters every 4-5 seconds, aswell as providing the iceflare bolts aspect by default.

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          • Marksman is a pretty weak example, the damage it provides is mediocre at best. Because it was used on one boss with a very specific build in one part of the game does not make it useful

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            • 由Aluber, Jester of Despia編輯: 10/5/2022 6:48:23 PM
              Beyond twenty-five to thirty meters BB is useless. Gathering storm randomly misses for no reason (but is still really good ill give you that) and GG IS THE MOST USELESS SUPER IN THE GAME (pardon all caps but I try so hard to use it but it is so bad in any situation). Star eaters are nice but orb regen is better with blight ranger. And GG has so bad of damage that they might as well be running gathering storm. And celestial is one of the worst exotics on hunter right now.

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            • Buff ideas: Burning Maul - Duration of Flame Tornados increase by 1.5x. - Increase Fire Tornado damage per tick by 20%. Fist of Havoc - Increase heavy slam damage and radius while amplified. - Shoulder Tackle now works with Knockout. Behemoth - Reduce the spread of crystals by 33%. (Making them more dense makes it more likely to freeze enemies and easier to break multiple near enemies, more threatening) - Increase shiver strike velocity both in and out of super. Daybreak: - Final blows on combatants (PvE only) extend super duration. (Old everlasting flame) - Projectiles apply more stacks of scorch per hit with Dawn Chorus equipped. Nova Bomb (Both) - Nova Bomb explosion deals +30% damage if cast while devour is active. Nova Bomb (Vortex) - New exotic: “While devour is active, Vortex grenades or nova bombs last significantly longer and continually pull enemies towards them. Devour lasts longer” (doesn’t stack with buff time extension fragment.) Nova Warp - +10% damage. - Fully charged blasts make enemies Volatile. It’s already got good total damage. Just needs a little something to spice it up. Chaos Reach - Casting while amplified grants +10-15% damage. Both Arc Warlock Supers (via Electrostatic Mind) - Add “Casting your super while amplified causes hits with your super to jolt enemies.” Deadeye Golden Gun - Increase damage per shot by 10-15% while firing from hip. PvE only. Arc Staff - Blight Ranger now also increases size of guard and reflected projectiles no longer cause flinch while equipped. - Dodge-melee Aftershocks now also apply Jolt if the right fragment is equipped. (In super.) Single Tether - Increase duration by ~3-5s. - Add an exotic that either deals DoT to tethered combatants or makes the tether anchor a crit spot. - increase debuff by ~5%. Spectral Blades - First attack after leaving invis applies Weaken if Stylish Execution is equipped. - Increase heavy attack damage by ~10% in PvE. - Reduce Stylish execution lockout timer by 1s. Just some thoughts. This doesn’t touch neutral game (for most of them, unless I want a neutral game ability to interact with the super). I’d say sentinel is better than you said and Marksman Goldie is worse.

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            • Ok, sentinel is a way more viable option than those other supers you mentioned in pve. It heals itself, has wide sweeping attacks, a projectile, and a block for allies. Detonators clear better than stormcaller and keeps allies alive as well. For the hunter supers, yes they should absolutely be brought down in power. Not because the other classes supers can't compete per say, but they are just so strong that other options within their own class are pretty irrelevant. I do think they'll have to be careful with how they tune them though, cause star eater scales has a requirement to activate vs the other super enhancing exotics not. They've got a TON of work to do on the lackluster mobile supers, but for some of them...their design might just be too bad to really save. Stormcaller is screwed, spectral blades is screwed, dawnblade is screwed, and 6 shooter is screwed. They just don't bring anything valuable to the table another mobile super within their field can't can't already provide. Chaos reach, although people like to talk crap about it, is great for add clear and really overshadows stormcaller. Arc strider is always gonna be better than spectral because of it's one exotic option and kit gearing it more for damage. Dawnblade has to fight against well of radiance, which let's be honest...30 seconds in well with a good fire team could kill so many more than a dawnblade super could by itself. Does this mean they shouldn't buff their damage, no I'm not saying they shouldn't...but they need help beyond damage.

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            • Yeah, why is Daybreak a tier 1 super? It doesn't do nearly enough damage, it's damage against bosses with Dawn Chorus got gutted in 3.0, and you don't even get an increased recharge rate of Phoenix Dive with it, futher making that ability useless as well.

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              • Bungie needs to realize they can’t “evenly distribute power” while also leaving one class’s super more powerful than others. If Bungie really wants classes to feel somewhat equal, give each subclass a super that does the same damage ie. nova vortex=celest goldie=thundercrash. (Obviously this isn’t perfect and things would need to be tweaked but I hope you get the idea) One last thing I wanna add is what is up with Bungie’s obsession over roaming supers? In PvE, I almost never see people using roaming supers. I only see them if its someone trying to have fun with them, test a build, or they’re a New Light. And I feel like while some are good in PvP, most still suck. The charge time is too slow for PvP and the damage output in most of them is too little to be viable in PvE

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                • Most of the Warlock Supers are so [i]s[/i]hit by comparison, I've resorted to using Ager's Scepter. With the Catalyst, it does a ton of damage, good add clear, and doesn't drain the entire Super charge.

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                • Pretty spot on.. but I've honestly lost hope and trust when it comes to fixing warlock supers. Every time they do something to "fix" things it gets worse. It's to the point where there's no reason to run anything but Well in a serious setting, because everything is absolute shít. Rip chaos reach, rip nova bomb, rip dawnblade

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                  • 由KungFooGrip2404編輯: 10/5/2022 2:17:42 AM
                    The current sandbox team and their management are lost. They can’t even nerf shotguns properly. They told us they were focusing more on gun play and we all know that is a complete joke. This game is ohk weapons and easy to use abilities. Yes I’m complaining about PvP

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                  • Yeh you hit the nail on the head with this post.

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                    • Yeah golden gun is also too good in PvP. It definitely needs a longer cool down.

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                      • Wow bring the facts, I can't disagree your 100% correct, however odds are locks will get a nerf before they even think about a buff, been this way since forsaken, nova warp still isn't right.

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                      • 由Wes編輯: 10/4/2022 3:25:17 AM
                        7
                        I mean, is marksman goldy [i]really[/i] an outlier? Add clear it sucks. Damage it sucks unless you use an exotic. Orb generation it's good, but you might as well use an exotic that makes orbs and gets kills, or makes orbs and buffs, like Well (especially since Well comes back way faster). Cooldown is WAY too long for what it does as well. I agree with everything else though.

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                        • I like the variety of supers. Who cares if hunters can out dps others? With dodge reload it was never a fair fight anyways.

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                          • Hunter supers have to be strong in PvE since if not for invis they bring virtually nothing else to 6 man content.

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                            • Honestly just allow fists of havoc to cast thunderclap with a 4x times faster cooldown during super, casting thunder clap takes no super energy but has to cooldown but is 4x faster then normal. And make the fists of havoc thunderclap do a lot more dmg, have longer range, and generate lightning strikes. The others need lots of fixes, not to mention arc and solar warlocks subclass being tedious and cookie cutter at best seeing how they are each a carbon copy of stasis and voids functionality. Daybreak does need a massive buff to everything, nova warp needs a dmg buff in pve and a duration buff (small one not to much) all around, and give it a bit more blast radius (1 foot increase). Give spectral blades a lot more dmg and lesser super energy taken on light attacks in pve. The rest I don't know yet so here is my thoughts.

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                              • 由Titan Skate編輯: 10/4/2022 2:12:23 AM
                                I want to add that these are my personal opinion, from someone who has amassed more than 7800 hours on D2 on Steam alone. I have played since year 1 of destiny 1 so I have experienced all of the changes of the destiny sandbox. To me the discrepancy between supers has never been greater than now and I feel as if it needs to be addressed.

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                                • Bubble titan needs to be back at 35%, and teams should have to make the choice of either their warlock having the best support super in the game, or the highest damage super, aka, Chaos Reach considering its requirement to stand their for 8 seconds.

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                                • Just use a 900rpm Xeno boom no pve problem

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                                • 由NotCreative123編輯: 10/4/2022 5:03:38 PM
                                  Let's be real. Destiny balance is a big pendulum Two or three seasons ago, Hunters were nearly unusable in PVE

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