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由boi編輯: 8/10/2022 8:07:51 PM
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Destiny’s Networking and P2P connectivity: What you should know

I wanted to share this as something informational, since there is frustration towards latency, particularly in the crucible. The current integration of Player-To-Player (respectfully known as Peer-to-Peer) network balancing works to a certain degree, but the overall implementation and its success is determined by how well its pros outweigh the cons included alongside it. P2P (hence the name) works by sending packets/conditions between a mesh network, allowing for all clients (the players) to interact with one another in the lobby- if one network has stability issues and has packet loss, it creates latency, or what we know as lag, such as teleportation, shots that don’t register, or postmortem deaths. At times, the system and clients may not be able to keep up with movement patterns of the players in the lobby, which creates another redundancy with quality turnout. It is also important to know that it does not always have to affect the whole lobby, as it could be an issue of the connection type between you and the other player (what we know as NAT) For the most part, P2P is great, but should be incorporated alongside an anti-cheat mechanism. If players are connected to only each other and not a hosted server, the internet packets can be manipulated and signal incorrect inputs in order to gain advantage over another opponent (I.e lag switch, DDosing). BattleEye works well to take care of this scenario, along with addressing third party software within the application- however, it will not fully resolve the “cheater” problem. Packet masking/relay can make their activity go unnoticed , which is what you may see on console every now and then. So, if you’re noticing lag when connecting to other players, it may not be from your end, but how the networks communicated to each other- unless Bungie decides to provide dedicated servers to the crucible, you will more than likely run into a poor connection every now and then, as it’s practically inevitable. [b]Edit: Feel free to correct or add on to what I shared- I have some experience with networking, but it’s not my main focus🤝[/b]
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  • 由mja calg編輯: 8/10/2022 9:07:38 PM
    Peer to Peer only works well under these conditions. 1) Large population playing when you play and that are internet local to you. 2) Everyone has good stable internet with adequate (especially) upload and download bandwidth and low latency. However, the population drops off dramatically after a few weeks of a new content release, https://steamcharts.com/app/1085660 so they don't have a large local population and are forced to match make you with anyone still playing, regardless of where they are. And on top of this we have Cross Play which is why > 50% of my games have people with Asian Gamer Tags and Clan names while I'm in Western Canada that are unkillable. Secondly, most people have limited upload capability as most ISPs offer high download and limited upload. When your in a 6v6 match, you have 11 up and 12 downloads streams to handle plus whatever Tally server information you send back to Bungle. Not only does this strain peoples internet, it also puts demands on older consoles for processing power. This is why Dedicated Hosting Server based games like COD or BattleField (which have 1 up and 1 download connection) can have games with 64 players on last gen console, but Destiny struggles with 12 player games. And before people start the Bungle can't implement Dedicated Servers spiel, For Honour shipped as a Peer to Peer game. The fans revolted on the Forums because of the issues this caused and stopped playing it. Ubisoft ripped the Peer to Peer code out in mid game and replaced it Dedicated Host Servers (yes it wasn't perfect and it had teething problems, but I'm told it made a huge difference in playability). What this proves is that if a company believes in their game, wants gamers to continue to be their customer and cares about the players game experience, then they can make things right. Bungle has no excuse at this point in not having Dedicated Host Servers.

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    • Ehy Guardian. Thanks for all the informations. I wasn't aware of all these things and this thread has been really helpgul to comprehend many aspects I ignored =)

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        p2p doesn't work for a live service, p2p has never worked for a live service it's great for games with co-op mode because it removes cost for server maintenance which means the coop function will live for a long time even the game stop updating, but that really is the one and only pro of using p2p connection, it self manufactures connection issue and you can not fix it

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        • [quote]I wanted to share this as something informational, since there is frustration towards latency, particularly in the crucible. The current integration of Player-To-Player network balancing works to a certain degree, but the overall implementation and its success is determined by how well its pros outweigh the cons included alongside it. P2P (hence the name) works by sending packets/conditions between a mesh network, allowing for all clients (the players) to interact with one another in the lobby- if one network has stability issues and has packet loss, it creates latency, or what we know as lag, such as teleportation, shots that don’t register, or postmortem deaths. At times, the system and clients may not be able to keep up with movement patterns of the players in the lobby, which creates another redundancy with quality turnout. It is also important to know that it does not always have to affect the whole lobby, as it could be an issue of the connection type between you and the other player (what we know as NAT) For the most part, P2P is great, but should be incorporated alongside an anti-cheat mechanism. If players are connected to only each other and not a hosted server, the internet packets can be manipulated and signal incorrect inputs in order to gain advantage over another opponent (I.e lag switch, DDosing). BattleEye works well to take care of this scenario, along with addressing third party software within the application- however, it will not fully resolve the “cheater” problem. Packet masking/relay can make their activity go unnoticed , which is what you may see on console every now and then. So, if you’re noticing lag when connecting to other players, it may not be from your end, but how the networks communicated to each other- unless Bungie decides to provide dedicated servers to the crucible, you will more than likely run into a poor connection every now and then, as it’s practically inevitable. [b]Edit: Feel free to correct or add on to what I shared- I have some experience with networking, but it’s not my main focus🤝[/b][/quote] P2P in no way shape or form is great, it has zero place in an environment that demands stable, fast networking It’s a cheap way of doing things, good for b, bad for us

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        • Some of us accepted this as a part of the Destiny experience a long time ago. It's as inherent to the game as bugs are to Bethesda games. At this point it's like my tinnitus. It's always there, but only noticeable every now and then, and rarely annoying.

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          • It’s also worth noting that D2 isn’t fully P2P, it’s Bungie’s own brand of “peer to peer hybrid.” Basically it’s the worst of both worlds from peer to peer and dedicated.

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            • 3
              Raven0194
              Raven0194

              FFXIV player for 5 years and Destiny Vet -

              Going to be honest. I don't expect Dedicated servers from Bungie since like. There is two expansion left with D2 in the light/dark saga. Though. If one day Rollback Netcode becomes a thing in FPS like it is in Fighting games. That would be great.

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              • Don't forget, on console cross-play between xbox and psn clearly adds another layer of problems.

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                • As they say in GoT, "it is known"

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                • Does your dad also work at Microsoft?

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                  • Ddos has nothing to do with anti cheat. It stopped because they started routing all traffic through steam relay servers. Which hides players ip addresses.

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                    • Sometimes too, you might have like a 15ms download ping to another player but their network throttles the incoming from you so you have a 90ms upload ping back to them. Saw this with some networks as I did connection test to see how far around the world I could play against before the ping got into a range I thought wasn’t healthy. Explains some of the connections I’ve seen. Nothing the player can do over what their provider does. Some providers sure don’t like data being sent back through their network but they live opening the gates to send it to you. It’s like they have a 3 inch outlet to you but only give you a half inch inlet to send data back.

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                    • I became skeptical of your analysis as soon as I read your definition of P2P (it stands for peer-to-peer, not player-to-player). Can’t be much of a network specialist if you don’t know this basic thing 🤷‍♀️ No hard feelings, just this was kind of obvious.

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                      • Thanks for the info/insight. I would hope you have some credentials or prior experiences in dealing or understanding networks. I ask this as that kind of judgement will be quick to trigger around here. Not that you're required to provide that or anything. It's more of a hesds up to back things up, in the event you get called out on something. Anyone can be/do anything on the Internet it seems. But information is information, it'll be on us to decipher, decode, and deliver our agreement or disagreement anyways lol. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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