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由kellygreen45編輯：
1/6/2021 5:26:16 PM
59
I left a comment in Aztecross' comment section that told him that he got the "Elephant in the Living Room" wrong.
The REAL Elephant in the Destiny Living Room is that the marriage between PVE and PVP in this game is a BAD marriage and is not working. What PVP and PVE want from the game's sandbox are incompatible....neither side is willing to compromise....so we have irreconcilable difference. The longer this goes on without some sort of divorce, the more one or both sides of the game are going to be unhappy.
NO one has been able to make a marriage of a loot game with "competitive " PVP work. Its why the vast majority of loot games dont' HAVE PvP...and the few who do they are built around contests of build-strength and not contests of skill.
IOW, playing the pvp of a game that is a loot-game....a space-magic game....and a power-fantasy game....and not dying on a regular basis TO that space magic is an unrealistic expectation. People want PvP to be a gun game, when Destiny is-not-and-never-has-been a gun game.
This is not Halo...and it never will be.
Bungie is eventually going to either have to seperate the sandboxes or do what every other dev winds up doing. Which is picking one side of the game over the other. Bungie appears to have quietly done this....and picked PvE over PvP. I believe that this is part of Smiths "Unification of Vision" for the game. Just one part that hasn't been shared with us.
[quote][i]This season along with most others just keep feeling like the same thing, reskinned enemies in PvE and now Sunset weapons... but brought back without even changing the name to grind for... again? Why?[/i][/quote]
Simple. WHERE IN THE GAME HAS THIS BEEN DONE?
Answer: In the parts of the game that are free-to-play. If you play the parts of the game where you are playing PAID content...that's where you're going to find all the new loot.
Why are we playing "reskinned" enemies? BECAUSE WE ARE FIGHTING A WAR....not playing an "adventure". There are only so many different simultaneous "wars" one group of people can fight before any an all "Suspension of Disbelief" gets broken beyond repair.
...and any notion that we are immersed in a believable, though fictional world dies....and the game just becomes an arcade game at that point.
There is only so much "newness" Bungie can add to this 7 year old franchise, while still maintaining any sense that this conflict is a struggle between clearly defined groups. That its an actuall WAR.
[quote]I thought permanence was supposed a big thing in this game?[/quote]
That permanence doesn't extend to loot or the power in the game it repreents. NO loot game can allow that, because it destroys the game. EVERY long-running loot game has to retire power from the game (capping item level like Bungie has done is far-and-away the best way to do it) in some fashion. Otherwise the game destroys itself. Like an engine without an exhaust system.
Bungie made this community a promise that it NEVER should have EVER made...and that it had NO relalistic chance of EVER making good on. It was an act of arrogance and ignorance on their part 5 years ago.
The problem isn't that they failed to keep it. The problem was that it was ever offered in the first place. Without Sunsetting this game would have NEVER made it another 3 years. IT was already starting to die last year. You just needed to know where to look to see it.
English
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Massive entertainment aka the division and the division 2 have a PvP and PvE split. With stat sheets for values in both mode... Sure, they have their own issues with balance but neither mode effects the other directly. Luke smith made a bold claim back at the E3 announcement for Destiny 2. The claim was the ability to split tune PvE and PvP... Bungie has made zero effort to do so. People will always love Destiny PvP. It's a team based arena shooter with good movement and gunplay. It's a rare breed among Fps games currently. We aren't asking for it to be the next rainbow six. We aren't asking for it to be valorant. We're literally asking for the same thing everyone else is. 1. Split PvP and PvE. 2. Make some attempt to balance both. 3. Give us some good maps. 4. Add PvP rewards. Emblems, ornaments, shaders, anything. 5. Most importantly, listen to your community. On both sides. [spoiler]" Luke Smith's fantasy land " This isn't good for either side of the community. [/spoiler]
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Yes. The Division games have a split sandbox, but..... 1. The games were built from the ground UP to allow that to happen....Destiny isn't. Bungie has made it clear that a complete sandbox split isn't possible without rebuilding the game. 2. Massive still ended up having to choose PVE over PVP. Its open world PVP (The Dark Zone) was either loved or hated by the player base.....mostly hated. Plus their efforts to create an arena-style PVP simply flopped. So you cannot look to these games as a solution. Because they didn't find a way to make it work either. Like Destiny, The Division 2s PvP basically had support for it withdrawn.
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No. You can look at it as a solution. Bungie promised that their new engine could and would support a pvp and pve sandbox split at the announcement of D2 at E3. Blatantly lied. No surprise there. The reality is that it is possible but Bungie is a lazy ass developer that is more focused on F2P players investing into eververse and a season pass. Bungie doesn't care about their player base. PvP or PvE. However, for the PvE community to sit here and blatantly deny that PvP is a big part of what makes the game different on the market and enjoyable for many is also a lie. Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean others don't. Most PvP mains play PvE when it's new and fresh but not constantly running the same things over and over. " BuT BunGiE iS InDePRnDent NoW " They got $100 million to develop another game. Beyond light base was $30? Can we get actual sale numbers of the DLC for some quick maths? I'd bet it's quite a bit of money. Can we get a quarterly earnings from Bungie to disclose the eververse sales as well? Id venture to say it's a lot. They aren't struggling. At all.
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Ok bro you're always right. You're the type that can never be wrong. You live in these forums to constantly cry about hand cannons but preach about everything else. GGs. Don't care. Bungie blows -blam!- as a developer. They have failed at every launch this far. They blatantly ignore their community. Both sides.
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So you’re just going to insult me because I refuse to ignore what happens when a similar game does something similar? The Division 2 divided their sandbox, but their pvp is basically dead. It solved the problems between pvp and pve, but it couldn’t resolve the differences that between factions in pvp. Some people wanted a gun game. Others wanted a build strength game like Division 1. Bungie already tried to redesign this game for the sake of pvp (vanilla D2) and it was a disaster.
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It's not an insult. It's true. You're a meme. You literally disagree just to disagree. Nothing I've stated is false. You're just choosing to hear what you want. There's no point in talking to people like you. You have zero capability of providing any valid debate.
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Right. Coming from people who’s first response to disagreement is to name call and bully those people into silence. Most of you wouldn’t be able to recognize and participate in a valid debate if it crawled up and bit you on the ankle. Raw emotion. Baseless assertions. Opinion presented as fact. Attacking people with insults. I take pride in the fact that I’m a meme in this lunatic asylum without walls. In the Land of the Blind the One-eyed Jack is King.
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Actually it’s an opinion. And why would I want the respect and approval of an internet mob?? This place is one part middle school playground. One part prison rec yard. If I’m approved of in that environment, then I’m doing something [i]wrong.[/i]
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No it's not... Read the comments. If it's one part prison rec yard, one part middle school... And you're constantly trying to prove what ever fantasy you're debating that day... That makes you a part of the society you described. You're a child who gets upset at anyone who doesn't agree. You have zero earnings. You have zero experience to base it on. You are a PvE main commenting on the state of PvP. You are nothing. You don't belong. Your opinion is invalid. PvE people who have hardly any time in the crucible shouldn't be quoting or offering any opinions. You're partially the reason the game is hot dog water. If Bungie would quit listening to the casual, perhaps it could develop. GGs. Not wasting time with you anymore.
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由kellygreen45編輯： 1/9/2021 12:09:13 AMLol. Just keep making my point. [i]You will conform or else.[/i] No thanks. Not interested. Not intimidated. If you don’t like what I have to say, the solution to YOUR problem is a simple one. Don’t read it. You came to ME, remember?
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I'm not trying to make you " conform ". It's cute that you actually think you matter that much. I've simply stated that you are a PvE main and have zero experience or a valid opinion on the PvP side. As such, you should sit this one out. [b][u]Facts[/u][/b]: Bungie hasn't provided a substantial PvP update since forsaken. A majority of the maps are of poor design. Ability balance is skewed highly in favor of the new cash cow. Bungie has remained silent about the situation and is trying to ignore it. Bungie has also ignored the PvP community entirely for years. Bungie could split the sandbox like they said they would back in ~2016 but they are to lazy. You have provided nothing valid to that list. You have simply tried to turn sympathy towards you. Poor, pitiful you. I'm not buying it.
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由kellygreen45編輯： 1/9/2021 12:19:10 AMThe irony.... ...can’t stop can you? By the way I have, IIRC, about 1500 hours of pvp play time invested in this franchise. Plus I’ve played in every pvp meta this franchise has ever had. But hey, thanks for telling me what I do and don’t know. Since you know nothing about me other than you don’t like what I have to say....
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LMAO. Pvp in D2 is an inferior product to the PVp in D1. It’s combat is shallow, predictable, and one-dimensional compared to that in D1. Translation: it is [i]boring[/i], and until the addition of stasis the sandbox was heavily slanted in favor of the thumbskill/twitchspeed player. Allowing you to stand together in mobs, run around in the open without regard to cover, and to generally give very little thought to what you are doing. Because if you’re quick enough you could run away from your mistake and traps you stumbled blindly into. This game is not rocket science. The meme is “You can’t talk about this game unless you have a million crucible hours and a 3.5 kd. Please. Don’t make me laugh.
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You're a meme. You have less than 250 crucible hours. You come up with wack ass " oh but I played D1 " or " oh but I have multiple accounts. " On your currently registered psn you have over 2500 hours. So quoting having xyz hours is irrelevant considering you have that much total game time but ~ 10% is crucible meaning you probably did a season to legend and you do your weeklies then bounce. That's not exactly the person Bungie should take advice from when it comes to future balance updates. D1 to D2 PvP is different. You are right. But to debate balance or bungies responsiveness in D2 and compare it to D1 is stupid. They are two separate games. Get over it. You once again have been proven wrong. You come in here with some " trust me I know all " mentality but no one really cares what you say. The truth is you're just some PvE lord that has a lot of opinions about PvP. The truth is OP was simply stating that Bungie has ignored the PvP community since.... Vanilla... And constantly promises but never delivers. No one cares if D1 PvP was better. No one cares if D1 maps were better. No one is contesting that. We all know it's true. We just don't understand why Bungie has been silent since the early months of Forsaken about what's going on with PvP. ( The crucible team quit back then. Bungie hired replacements... Who also quit and stated that Bungie leads " didn't know their own game " ) so that's probably why there's so much silence. So again. -blam!- off. You're a PvE main. I don't tell Bungie how to balance raid encounters. PvP mains are constantly ignored by Bungie and when the topic is brought up some PvE lord always has some smart ass interjection like anyone actually gives a -blam!- 🤣
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1. I don’t care. 2. When you have to attack me to discredit the ideas, that’s proof of the fact that you have a [i]weak[/i] argument. Especially when your only Avenue of attack is to stubbornly insist that the time I spent playing Destiny with its much stronger abilities and more lethal pvp sandbox [i]doesnt count[/i] is laughably childish.
