JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

《天命2》

討論《天命2》的所有事情。
由ShadowheartMC編輯: 10/7/2020 5:44:33 AM
30
18
ShadowheartMC
ShadowheartMC

YES YES YES!!!!

Defense for Variks

Hello all. Today I stand before you once again, probably for the final time, to debate this topic. I’ve done this many times, and this time I decided to use all the facts. Instead of telling you to go look, I’m bringing them right to you. Since the trailer for BL was released, there has been a lot of hatred directed at the love of my life. Yes, Variks. I’m here to once again debunk your arguments, and prove you are wrong about Variks. Let’s start with the easy fact that Variks saw the traveler leave his people and he had to deal with complete chaos. None of you would be mentally healthy after seeing your family slaughtered. Can we keep that in mind? I could say a lot more about his past, but let’s keep it short cuz most of you don’t care about his mental health, lets be real. Moving on to HoW. “I was House Judgement scribe. I stood with Skolas for much of Reef Wars. Now, I stand with you in Judgement of Wolf Kell. That feels…right, somehow.” -Variks Variks openly admits he worked with Skolas and that he’s changed sides. Now, when you want someone to believe you’re on their side, wouldnt you want to give a more convincing argument than “it feels right”? That’s because he’s telling the truth and speaking his mind. “Skolas was vicious, even for a Fallen Kell. I could not stomach his hate.” -Variks “New tactics. Detonations. Blasts in civilian areas. Take the fight to them, he said. Cannot abide the hate. Uprising, they called it. Uprising on Cybele.” —Variks, clearly having good heart For those who use Variks being disloyal to Skolas as some flimsy argument, im here to burst your bubble. Variks saw some things none of you would be able to stomach unless you’ve fought in a war. If you realize you’re on the wrong side of the war, what would you do? Loyalty would keep you on the side of murderers? Since people love to say Variks is a proven traitor because of this. So, choosing the right side when you realize your place is morally wrong means you’re a liar and a traitor? I’m sorry, are we living in backwards world? Condemning Variks for making the right choice is totally asinine. I’m sorry that I just feel I shouldn’t even have to argue for that one. Now, what everyone seems to forget. Variks [i]saved[/i] the awoken and possibly Earth itself. “After the Fortuna Plummet, one of Prince Uldren’s crows returned with a message from a fallen, by the name of Variks, of the House of Judgment.” “In desperation, Skolas personally led an all out assault on the military fortress of Cybele. Little did he know that the Queen knew of his plans, thanks to the word of Variks.” “The Reef Wars were effectively over.” —Abstracts from the Maraid If you haven’t read this, I suggest you do because do you have any idea how many people died in this? How close House Wolves came to winning? “As soon as we saw them, it was clear that if the Wolves reached Earth, the City would [i]fall[/i].” -Abstracts from the Maraid The only reason Skolas is dead is because of [i]Variks[/i]. The only reason this war halted is because of [i]Variks[/i]. What thanks have you given him for the lives he saved? No one even [i]remembers[/i] this. What a great reward for his actions. Doubts and insults. If a veteran hero of war was treated this way in real life, it would be considered absolutely repulsive. So, what’s your excuse? Race? Your own ignorance? Hey awoken, you’re welcome. Hey earth, you’re welcome. Oh, and remember Taniks? You’re welcome, because Variks helped you get him too. “She kept them frozen in her prison, the Prison of Elders, and she gave the keys to that prison to my buddy Variks, a Fallen who showed her loyalty.” -Cayde 6, your vanguard, said Variks was loyal and his friend. Now, let’s take a step back for a moment to observe the best lines in this game from our beloved NPCs ! “Filthy fallen” -awoken Corsair “If you’re looking for mindless violence, go talk to that fallen creature over there” -Ives “Variks is about all I can stand right now” -Petra “Variks has his uses, but be careful. He holds to many alliances.” -Petra “If we’re going to talk, you’re going to buy me a drink” -Cayde “Not unless you want to lose your last two real arms. We're done. Get. You're bad luck." -Cayde “You want me to take you to the City? No way, bug.” -Cayde Can’t find where she said it but Eris called him a fool back in D1 Oh and the things you guys say, like about putting a bullet in his head. You’re the guardian, after all. This isn’t everything but it’s plenty enough. So... I wonder what Variks has to say about these people? Must have some nasty things to say in return I bet. Let’s start with the awoken who call him filthy fallen? Oh... He calls them his adopted people. “They do not believe I love the Queen. But I do.” -Variks, about Mara “You are might and justice, my Queen, my Kell.” -Variks, about Mara Variks also advised his brothers to serve Mara as their Kell. “Go to Eris and ask her to listen to the Echoes. She is wise in ways of the Hive. Eris will find [Malok]” —Variks about Eris “Talk to Petra, she could use a smile.” -Variks about Petra “If his anatomy allowed for it, he would have smiled in kind. Hers was a heart always in the right place...” —Variks’s thought on Petra from the book Most Loyal “You are my friend.” “You’re part of our history now.” “Come here, let me thank you.” —Variks’s various quotes about the guardian. “They call me betrayer. They do not think I hear the words. "Bug." "Insect." "Fallen." I hear. House of Judgment always hears. No choice. Has to. To keep Houses together. Had to.” —Variks How long do you all like to pretend you’d last while being harassed in your own “home?” Plenty of humans break under far less pressure than Variks had on his shoulders. Imagine risking your life, risking everything you believe in, for your enemy. And then having open arms to them, helping them, being kind. Only for them to turn around and say this sh*t about you. Stop acting like you’d have done any better than Variks in this situation cuz most of you would have done worse. Most people don’t even have the mental capacity to set aside their pride for this sort of thing. Now for those of you who accuse him as if he [i]wanted to be Kell of Kells, as if he wanted to take this position.[/i] Allow me to present the facts. “Petra: Heh. Maybe you are the Kell of Kells. Variks (distracted by screen): Looks like Skolas returns to Venus. Petra: I'll find the Guardian.” — conversation between Variks and Petra in D1 Variks doesn’t even want to answer or entertain that thought. “Variks keeps a ragged piece of armor in his pod. It's human tech, Golden Age. Shattered in some ancient battle, pre-Collapse, and left to drift. He found it and he brought it to his quarters so he could sit on it. It's nothing like a throne. Variks doesn't want a throne.” More proof for you. “Skolas has been captured, mad Skolas who would have ruined everything. Variks should be happy. He's not. With his little knife and his two arms and his stolen shining thing he feels like a Dreg. He feels ashamed.” Do I enjoy sharing this? No. It’s one of the reasons I didn’t like to reply to people with facts when arguing about this. It’s such a slap in the face that you can’t just go and see the fact that Variks didn’t want to be a Kell. Variks had a good heart. Even though Skolas was mad, he feels bad about the “betrayal.” So once again, those of you who like to harass him about that? Try again. He already feels terrible about this. He doesn’t need you bashing him as well. “He betrayed Skolas twice. At Cybele, and again, now. He will betray Skolas' dream ten times more. Variks will never be strong like Skolas, big like Skolas, a leader like Skolas. Variks will work for the Queen, oversee the Prisons, watch his fellow Fallen (they are Fallen, it's a good name now) fight and die as gladiators who want nothing except a chance to hurt Guardians. Even Skolas.” I don’t even need to explain this. You know why these quotes are here and they prove you wrong about him. “The Fallen interlocked his upper hands. He bowed his head as he allowed himself to really feel the impact of that abomination on the screen. He never would have allowed anyone else to see this, but it hurt. Seeing the horror that was “Sepiks” made anew. His people had fallen. Variks stared at the image of Sepiks. And as he’d done before, he wondered what would have gone differently had he been there, among his people. Could he have stopped this before it happened? Could he have found them a better way?” Now, let us move to the ever sensitive topic of forsaken. I’m not going to beat around the bush here. Here are the facts down below.

文章張貼語言:

 

以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

  • 7
    ShadowheartMC
    ShadowheartMC

    YES YES YES!!!! -

    “She did not, however, fully appreciate the threat these "Scorned" Barons posed. He had tried to warn her when they were just seven Dregs and a heretical Archon. Now their terror was spreading throughout the Reef with more and more Fallen answering the Barons' anarchistic call.” —Variks about Petra [i]Just this[/i] should be enough for you to understand what has happened. Petra is the one who didn’t listen. Petra is the reason the barons became the barons. If you’re going to blame Variks, [b]YOU HAVE TO BLAME HER TOO![/b] Let’s discuss Variks’s mental health since I think that’s a valid argument. “With the Light now streaming across the system and nothing to show for it—no Queen, no Eris or Osiris, and no sign the Great Machine remembered the Eliksni—what was there to look forward to? Base survival. One day after the other. Living just because he still drew breath. And where was the Dreg strength in that? What was the…” —Variks, Most Loyal Variks is literally having some form of mental health issue here, there’s no denying that. Do none of you feel sympathy for this? Variks has been struggling for years upon years to make the right choices under incredible pressure. Can you honestly say you would have done better? Can you put yourself on such a high moral pedestal? “But if it worked—perhaps Fikrul could be cured. Perhaps—if what Variks suspected was true, and Fikrul's corruption was related to the Prince's affliction—Uldren could be cured, too.” —Most Loyal For those of you who accuse Variks of only caring about himself, his own people, and becoming a Kell. [b]Wrong.[/b] “Variks had said as much to Petra, but she'd refused to listen. “You will not experiment on the Prince." “Our Prince is ill. To keep him here… hide him from Awoken eyes… not right. Not right."” —Variks and Petra in Most Loyal What loyalty did Variks really owe Uldren? We all know Uldren had a bad attitude, and I bet he didn’t treat Variks amazingly before this. Yet he spent time trying to cure both fikrul AND Uldren. Then he reminded Petra of how she was lying to her OWN PEOPLE. Look at the honesty levels here. Look at the loyalty. But Petra literally denied his help, in a quite unfriendly manner might I add. How long would you put up with this? “Variks knelt before Uldren. "We thought you dead. But you are in my care now, yes?" His arms carefully brushed at the Awoken man, probing but gentle.” —Variks with uldren In Most Loyal If these bits of story I’ve shared with you today haven’t at least made you see Variks has a good soul, you’re just blatantly ignorant. If you continue to accuse Variks of being selfish, of wanting power, and all these insulting lies, you are blatantly ignoring the facts because you are either blinded by your grief over Cayde, or you are choosing ignorance because of Variks’s race or because you just don’t like him. Not liking Variks is fine. Blaming Variks ALONGSIDE Petra and the others for Cayde’s death is fine. But when you accuse him of being a power hungry evil person who murdered Cayde and has always been against us? You are dead wrong. Variks is loyal, kind, caring, when he [i]shouldn’t[/i] be. We didn’t [i]deserve[/i] Variks’s loyalty. Variks finally took matters into his own hands. His releasing of Uldren was a last act of loyalty. He left to go become something more for his people. It might have been messy as hell. But he did what he thought he had to do, as the loyal person and with the heart of gold he’s always had.

    文章張貼語言:

     

    以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

    59 回覆
    • % Youre creating a defense for Variks yet literally for all the characters in game, they only know that he let the prisoners free, then dipped. No matter how much "good" you do, you cant do something that led to THAT much devastation and then leave like a criminal without explanation. No wonder he's on the awoken watchlist. Some guardians have lived for centuries only to succumb to dark and evil desires and inevitably become "villains." These are supposed to be the "good" guys. So imagine Variks, descendant of a race that literally ate human children in front of people, starting a riot that would cost the lives of so many awoken, along with one of the most notorious guardians of all time(his fault kinda but still). I dont blame people for wanting him put down. According to Beyond Light though, maybe we do get an explanation. Or none at all...which would be weird. %

      文章張貼語言:

       

      以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

      4 回覆
      • At this point he’s right. Variks didn’t do anything wrong. It was Riven that caused Cayde to die and justice has long since been served.

        文章張貼語言:

         

        以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

        1 回覆
        • Seriously, how freaking long do these races live? Fallen clearly live for several hundred years if Variks was present during the Whirlwind, Hive are effectively immortal so long as they feed their worms, Cabal can live a few hundred years iirc, and the Vex are seemingly ageless.

          文章張貼語言:

           

          以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

        • Oh boy, the fire’s been lit.

          文章張貼語言:

           

          以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

          2 回覆
          • Petra is dealing with chaos now. Her people and their home are cursed and under siege. Her queen was missing for quite some time prior. I understand you like Variks as a character, but understand we all have favorites. Mine is her. So rather than pull a move any American politician would try, you should have stuck with your facts. Don't throw another person under the bus to redirect some blame. Of course Variks made a mistake with good intentions, but I'd rather House Judgement have him than no one at all. He was level headed, and he was fairly loyal in the past. Problem is, he will have to prove himself all over again. You can't argue against that. Petra screwed up too, by allowing the monster to grow. But he set it free. And he is also a member of a race that came from seemingly nowhere to wipe our civilization out. Of course they're going to call him names. Fallen were never known to humans for being kind and loyal friends until now. Centuries of genocide and atrocities aren't handwaved after a few years of loyal service, even if he had no hand in it. Most people don't know anything about his "lore" or stories. They didn't know him enough to be kind. All in all, I don't hate him. I don't think he is evil. He made a hard choice when nothing seemed like it would go well. He hoped for the prison riot to go better, I have no doubt. Cayde should have waited and had backup. But, Variks owes an apology for helping set it all in motion. As does Petra. After that, I welcome him home as a friend and ally. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

            文章張貼語言:

             

            以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

            4 回覆
            • We shouldn't lay a finger on Variks Because FIKRUL AND HIS BARONS DESERVE THE KILL! SCORN ARE ETERNAL! JUDGEMENT IS DEAD! [b][i][u]SCORN ARE ETERNAL[/u][/i][/b]

              文章張貼語言:

               

              以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

              7 回覆
              • Eliksni gang.

                文章張貼語言:

                 

                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

              • Eh, he changes sides too often and betrayal is his thing. Id kill him if I was given the option to

                文章張貼語言:

                 

                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

              • <Didn't actually know a couple these. Neat. I always liked Variks, saw immediately why he did what he did once I read through Most Loyal. I want him to survive, I want him to team up with Mithrax. Both the distant past and the imminent future of the Fallen in one swoop, the perfect combo, the perfect Eliksni for the now and the future.>

                文章張貼語言:

                 

                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

              • Nerd

                文章張貼語言:

                 

                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

              • Variks is responsible for literally all the events of Forsaken.

                文章張貼語言:

                 

                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                3 回覆
                • 由PhNx Hellfire編輯: 10/7/2020 11:14:53 PM
                  [quote]Since the trailer for BL was released, there has been a lot of hatred directed at the love of my life. Yes, Variks.[/quote] Rightfully so. I think at some point you said you would have your boyfriend kill Variks instead of you if it came to that. Might be someone else though. Here's to hoping I get to say, "For Cayde-6" before I pull the trigger on blowing his brains out. I actually felt bad for Uldren, but when it was revealed Variks betrayed the reef and resulted in Cayde's permanent death? The warpath was set. Variks should fall. By my hand preferably. Eliksni burgers anyone? I'll put some special sauce on just to make them taste good... /s [quote]But when you accuse him of being a power-hungry evil person who murdered Cayde and has always been against us? You are dead wrong. Variks is loyal, kind, caring when he shouldn’t be. We didn’t deserve Variks’s loyalty.[/quote] Your perspective is one of idealism with a creature who deserves none. No sympathy or help with his distress call and I for one will see him finished like a standard cabal legionary. Variks is a war criminal and nothing more.

                  文章張貼語言:

                   

                  以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                  4 回覆
                  • Does this defence work on bullets? Hope not.

                    文章張貼語言:

                     

                    以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                    6 回覆
                    • I don’t think anyone has argued that Variks hasn’t done good things. You’re also forgetting Variks would be dead without us. So it’s not like we are in debt to him. Being great and awesome to you for years is cool and all but it doesn’t make up for being stabbed in the back in the end. Betrayal is betrayal. A lot of Awoken and Guardians are dead Because of Variks. Can’t square that with past favors.

                      文章張貼語言:

                       

                      以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                      13 回覆
                      • tl:dr

                        文章張貼語言:

                         

                        以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                        1 回覆
                        • Variks was a meme at best in D1. Pretty weird you have a cringey crush on a space roach, but then again I get constant daily reminders of all the guys with waifu crushes and other cringey love interests so this is nothing new. I hope you get the help you need.

                          文章張貼語言:

                           

                          以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                          7 回覆
                          • Anti-Variks war machine is on the march. Kill...or be killed. [spoiler]This is an excellent defense. I really don't see how anyone could debate this.[/spoiler]

                            文章張貼語言:

                             

                            以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                            2 回覆
                            • 4
                              KS27
                              KS27

                              Plotting to kill Taniks with magnets - 12/1/2020 4:20:32 PM

                              Excellent. Variks is a great guy. From his disgust at the Fallen’s violence, his absolute loyalty to the Sov’s and his friends, and wanting to restore his people even though they all want him dead. Those who wish him dead haven’t paid enough attention to his story and character. [spoiler]Eris called Variks a fool in the Malok quest, because he was interested in Malok. If I recall correctly, Variks wanted to capture Malok rather than kill him, and I’m pretty sure that’s what pissed Eris off so much since she wanted the Taken dead.[/spoiler]

                              文章張貼語言:

                               

                              以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                              3 回覆
                              • I hate Variks, only because he spawned B and C mines at the same time during the Skolas fight , he liked to troll guardians in POE Has for his actions of Forsaken, fact is he let the rabid dog off his chain , his loyalty to the awoken prince cost lives, Awoken and a Guardians life was taken has a result of his actions, and that’s still a fact dispite his good intentions. But we are going to have to forgive Uldren who is now a guardian, maybe we can forgive variks has well And he traveled to Europa with Erimus and her dark house, but it’s not known if he went willingly or has a prisoner, he sends us a distress signal so maybe that means he escaped and needed our help With that said , I think Mithrax is a stronger ally , he actually fights alongside guardians

                                文章張貼語言:

                                 

                                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                              • I love Variks, he's so creepy in a nice way :) D2 has been lacking without him, when I heard him start speaking in the trailer it made me smile. Variks SHOULD be Kell of Kells

                                文章張貼語言:

                                 

                                以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                3 回覆
                                • If we want to get technical then technically Petra told Cayde to wait for her to help him. And technically Cayde didn’t listen. And technically Cayde died.

                                  文章張貼語言:

                                   

                                  以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                  1 回覆
                                  • Shadow: "Noo you can't just blame Variks I have a ton of evidence!!!" Smooth brained Destiny players: "Haha, 'Variks basically killed Cayde' go brrrrrr." Lore nerds: "Variks is good." "Yes."

                                    文章張貼語言:

                                     

                                    以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                  • As I have always said, Variks was a passive idealist who hoped his species would once be able to return to their prime. Prior to Forsaken Variks realised that anyone who might have led his species there was dead, leaving only him. I’m mostly interested in how Variks came to be on Europa. Was he really successful enough for Eramis to consider him a rival? If so, what’s happened to those Fallen who joined his cause?

                                    文章張貼語言:

                                     

                                    以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                    3 回覆
                                    • Variks is indirectly responsible for the death of Cayde 6 by causing the prison riot in the beginning of foreaken. That's why I personally dislike Variks. Not hate. He was a fun character and had a decent story but that action. Variks basically wants to become Skolas without the whole take the traveler by force once I unite the houses under me. Whereas Mithrax... He literally wants to prove to the traveler his people are still worthy and reclaim the name of his people.

                                      文章張貼語言:

                                       

                                      以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                      16 回覆
                                      • You don’t need to convince me. I don’t blame him at all

                                        文章張貼語言:

                                         

                                        以禮待人。發佈文章前請花點時間查看我們的行為準則 取消 編輯 創立火力戰隊 文章

                                        1 回覆
                                        你無權檢閱此內容
                                        ;
                                        preload icon
                                        preload icon
                                        preload icon