Top tree fist of havoc is a solid super to use in pve and PvP. It's got good damage potential through shoulder charge and the double nades that linger more (which is one of my favorite perks) can be potent in pve and PvP. Same thing with the super. But there are some issues with the super that have long existed since arc week. Not bugs per say, but rather the effectiveness of the super itself. I put them in spoilers so that people can pick what they care to read. In pve: [spoiler]The supers damage and means to maximize the damage are quite honestly disappointing. It has a perk called "terminal velocity" which states that it increases the damage of your fist of havoc the longer you are in the air. This perk on paper is a really good perk and in actual use it is as well, but there's something about it that makes the utility of the perk so tedious, in that you NEED to make use of terminal velocity otherwise the damage output (regardless of whether or not I'm using it on a boss does not matter) is insanely low for a super. The damage of fist of havoc on it's own is so low, that orange health bar enemies, aka majors, will not die even when you are 100 light levels over them. I went to earth and was doing one of the servitor public events and I used my fist of havoc on the servitors the boss spawns, which are majors. I only took out half of its health with a fist of havoc, ONLY half of its health. I then on the same one, I leaped and slammed on it and it only died to the aftershocks. Clip: https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/dubchiri2/video/82537480 That might not sound bad, but let me introduce sentinel: The LIGHT ATTACK from sentinel did MORE damage and similar damage to 2 Fist of havocs, that is absolutely pathetic (this could be wrong but the clip shows differently so I'll test it out later, but for now this clip will do). Clip: https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/dubchiri2/video/82537618 This same attack also hits in a cone and can be followed up with a heavy attack that does 3x the damage and then you also have a projectile that can bounce between multiple enemies and kill up to about 5 red bars. Why does a fist of havoc do less damage than sentinels light attack and only match sentinels light attack with some height against majors? Here's some Kali numbers: Fist of havoc w/o terminal velocity: 6877. Fist of havoc with a jump and no lift: 18,081 Fist of havoc with jump and max strafe lift: 18,081 Fist of havoc w/increased height lift: 29,285 Sentinel light attack: 6408 Sentinel air light and shield bash combo: 18,599. Sentinel shield toss: 6451 The boss damage shows different data than what I talked about above, but sentinel has been buffed more against majors so that's why it's so different than the results shown. But even if we just take a look at the numbers provided, a sentinel simply mashing the light attack button in the air will put out, on average, about the same damage as a fist of havoc with max strafe lift against bosses or on average destroy a major more quickly and efficiently. This difference between damage is just so vast that it's impractical to use the normal fist of havoc without being high into the air. I like the maximum potential damage (which is just a high lift jump and slam, no need for rocks. I confirmed this by leaping off of where the raid banner is right on top of her), but it's lowest possible damage is so minimal that it is literally more effective to just use sentinel or bottom tree striker for both minor clear and major clear as they are not only more efficient at doing so, but are very similar in damage on average. Solution (just using the boss numbers because it makes it easy): Make the base damage of fist of havoc the same as the current jump fist of havoc (18,081 damage) but keep the maximum potential damage the same (a normal leap fist of havoc should do about 22k and a max height jump 29k). By making the overall base damage higher but keeping the maximum potential damage the same, the overall feel of the super without leaping will be far more comfortable for the energy cost being used and it will punish you far less for hitting maximum height. No buff should triple or almost quadruple your damage based off of variables like this, because then it becomes far more tedious and worthless if the buff isn't substantial and it is substantial, but only at its maximum. [/spoiler] In pvp: [spoiler] The only real problem fist of havoc has is it's consistency in killing players that are moving and gap closing. Fist of havoc by itself does 275 damage, which is a good amount, but it is inconsistent at killing players that are jumping or moving around, especially with latency being thrown in. The other issue I have with it is the gap closing. The light attack consumes way too much energy (about as much as a hammer of sol) so using it as an evasive move is not practical. However, I don't want to turn it into bottom tree striker. Solutions: Increase the damage from 275 to 300 damage on fist of havoc. Add "headstrong" to fist of havoc, which increases leap distance while moving. The increase in damage will help it more comfortably secure kills in PvP and headstrong will give the fist of havoc its own means of gap closing and thus more properly promoting the use of the heavy attack as it was intended.[/spoiler]