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《天命2》

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由Doctor_Roidberg編輯: 9/10/2019 3:18:22 PM
105

A word about Titans.

Read before you comment. I touch on many topics, a reader will likely find things they agree with and disagree with. After reading the latest TWAB, my concerns are many and varying. I’m going to discuss my issues about certain buffs, followed by my complaints about needed buffs we aren’t getting. Firstly, my question is why does Bungie CONTINUE to buff Titans in PvP and ignore all the requests for buffs in PvE? This is a two sided coin. Bottom tree Striker with One Eyed Mask is basically the PvP meta right now. As a Hunter main, I am willing to say I find it annoying. I don’t have much of a problem with OEM, I think it’s fine where it’s at. [spoiler](Id like to see some kind of buff to Wormhusk Crown though. Maybe a slightly longer dodge cooldown with the original health regen on dodge effect.)[/spoiler] My issue is with bottom tree Striker. It’s currently the Titan version of pre nerf Nova Warp and Spectral Blades. This is a result of three culprits: health regeneration on kills, Super energy regen on kills, and the light attack cost being 85% less than top tree. These factors make it a monster. It takes far less actual skill to utilize effectively than its top tree counterpart. Top tree CHEWS through the Super bar like there’s no tomorrow, and has no regen. Bungie has made the same mistake with this as with Top tree Dawnblade vs Bottom tree Dawnblade. (Cozmo has made comment on Reddit acknowledging concerns about these subclasses.) The mistake is that [b]A SUPER SHOULD HAVE EITHER SUPER ENERGY REGEN [u]OR[/u] ANOTHER INTRINSIC PERK, NOT BOTH.[/b] What I mean by this is that bottom tree Striker and bottom tree Dawnblade have two bonuses that the top tree counterpart does not. For Striker this is the Super regen and the reduced cost for the light attack. For Dawnblade this is Super regen and increased tracking. This makes the Super low risk, high reward. With both supers you can just spam in the direction of the enemy, the Super does the work for you by tracking to the enemy, and you’re rewarded more Super energy to keep doing the same thing. And as a result there’s no reason to use the top tree except Icarus Dash or Seismic Strike. Which don’t make enough impact to warrant it. My solution is simple: make one tree high risk, high reward, while the other is low risk. Top tree Dawnblade should gain increased tracking, but have no Super regeneration. Each swing is a likely kill, but once you’re done you’re done. Bottom tree retains the Super regen, but loses the enhanced tracking. Each swing isn’t guaranteed to kill without good aim, but if you pull it off you’re rewarded with more super energy. Same thing with Striker. Bottom tree wouldn’t expend Super energy as fast, and you’d get a few kills for sure, but once you’re done you’re done. With top tree you’d chew through that bar faster, but with each kill you’d get a second wind. It would simultaneously buff the less used top tree while reigning in the bottom tree. Let’s get back to Titans. Shield bash is going to Suppress. Shield bash is going TO SUPPRESS. This isn’t a PvE buff. Suppression doesn’t work on higher tier enemies, and the radius of the new aftershock isn’t big enough to make it worth using on trash adds. Only way I can see this helping in PvE is if it works to suppress mid tier enemies like Blockers in Gambit or Knights in CoS. Which I’m fairly certain doesn’t happen with Suppressor Grenades (correct me if I am wrong.) So we now have a melee ability that can not only one shot regular guardians but can shut down supers. Currently the only way to melee shutdown a Super is to be a Titan and use Peregrine Greaves and be airborne. Balanced due to the fact that it requires an exotic and being airborne. Don’t get me wrong here, I love my Peregrines and think it’s absolutely fun to knee people out of Super. But this new Shield Bash is going to shut down Supers without any exotic needed? Suppressors are deadly in the hands of the skilled, but this is going to take much less skill than Suppressors. [spoiler]Side point that it’s dumb that Titans can one shot melee a Super but Hunters have to get a headshot on a highly mobile target with a SUPER. Not saying Titans SHOULDNT one shot supers with Peregrines, but Three Shooter Goldie SHOULD OHK body shot Supers. It did it for three years in D1.[/spoiler] TLDR; Striker needs to be tuned and Shield Bash suppression is a bad idea. [b][i][u]ON TO THE IGNORED BUFFS[/u][/i][/b] Congratulations on making it through the wall of text to this point. Most people will have already likely called me a whining Hunter main and stopped reading by this point, so props to you for having an open mind. [b]THUNDERCRASH CONTINUES TO BE IGNORED.[/b] A request for a damage increase to Thundercrash has been a point made since Forsaken. The community managers have even acknowledged it along with Ward of Dawn, yet we’ve seen no change. It’s a concentrated damage super similar to Blade Barrage and Nova Bomb, but the key difference is that those two are THROWN while Thundercrash IS THE TITAN. You’re putting yourself at higher risk of getting stomped into oblivion, so shouldn’t you do at least the SAME DAMAGE as the others? Now Thundercrash has an advantage over the other one hit wonders in the form of Skullfort. The Super generation speed in PvE is nothing short of jaw dropping (particularly if you have Hands-On). You can go from 0 to Super much quicker which is a solid advantage over the other two. However I still think it should do comparable damage due to the risk factor of it. Additionally you can buff its damage with Synthoceps (I’m gonna come back to Synthoceps in a second) but it’s still not comparable. And Inertia Override is really only useful for montage scenes where you body shot someone with a Sniper in the 5 seconds Override is active. [b]BURNING MAUL[/b] Another meh Subclass receiving no buff. It’s utility is limited due to its limited range and functionality. It has nearly zero aerial ability, the light attack barely kills anything but chews through the Super bar, and the heavy attack is limited in its usage due to needing to be in a straight line from your target with zero obstruction. Additionally the damage of the Super is only competitive when you have both Roaring Flames active to max and SYNTHOCEPS (told you). [b][i][u]BUT WAIT, THERES MORE[/u][/i][/b] Know that little tidbit in the TWAB about damage buff stacking? How there’s only going to be one personal buff and one enemy debuff, and they won’t stack? Uh oh. After Shadowkeep comes out BIOTIC ENHANCEMENTS AND ROARING FLAMES LIKELY WILL NOT STACK. So they’re actually nerfing Maul. Yikes. Usage is dropping steadily. And we’ve continued to ask for an exotic armor piece that allows us to call the Throwing Hammer back to our hand Thor style but so far have heard nothing affirmative. (Seriously, even if you have to stand there with your arm out waiting for it to come back it would still be good.) [b]BOTTOM TREE SUNBREAKER[/b] The point about buffs not stacking will apply to Sun Warrior as well. Bottom tree Sunbreaker will no longer be able to stack Sun Warrior with Synthoceps, cementing Top Tree Sunbreaker as the more effective Hammers. Additionally the Mortar Blast melee ability for bottom tree continues to do LESS DAMAGE THAN A NORMAL MELEE EVEN WITH THE BURN DOT. This makes the melee more annoying than useful. I continue to be confused and astounded by the continual buffing of Titans in PvP and seeming deafness when PvE enters the mix. The only upside to the TWAB is that the Shield Bash will probably make some people give up Bottom Tree Striker and that WARD FINALLY GOT BUFFED. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m SUPER excited to be a Defender again and extremely thankful to Bungie for this one.) But we need more balance between classes, instead of having them lean so far into one facet of Destiny and so far away from the other. I like Hunter because I think they do this well, utility in PvP due to their mobility and utility in PvE due to things like Goldie for DPS and Tether for Add Control. But Titans just rock in PvP, without making much splash in PvE. And I think that’s sad. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, and suffering through my wall of text. Hope I didn’t step on too many toes. Or if I did, well... sorry? Be nice to each other. Edit: [b][i][u]NERF TITAN SHOULDER PLATES, MY FEMALE TITAN LOOKS LIKE A MAN WITH THE SOLSTICE ARMOR[/u][/i][/b]

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  • Don't forget that god damn marked for vengeance crap.

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  • 3
    ):
    ):

    awesome 😎 -

    You obviously run a hunter main because they're pvp meta, yet you complain about about a class that less than thirty percent of the community even use? Remember why you chose your crutchbaby hunter in the first place, you like all hunter mains need an advantage over others in order to succeed. The new meta is crybaby hunters.

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    • "OEM" seems to be the new catch phrase of the month.

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    • Ehh the bottom tree striker has been like this since launch. It probably just wasn’t noticed because of the crazy... CRAZY... OP super options all around. Sure you can heal w/ bottom tree in super... but I’d argue spectral and dawnblade are on the same level. But before we get into that, let’s mention shutdowns and neutral game. If you have a shutdown super, other supers don’t matter as shutdowns should always win and will always win if used correctly. Regarding neutral game, hunters can get wallhacks, invis, and a wombo smoke/nade kill. The neutral game of this class is off the charts. Locks can get crazy areal mobility, healing/overshield capability, or the ability to use chapperone, for example, to ohk at pulse ranges. Same with aggressive snipers I believe. Idk I’m neglecting my warlock currently. Titans can get shoulder charge, or they can get melee that heals, or some ways to buff damage through their class depending on circumstances. (Frontal assault or inertia, etc). I won’t touch on every class but really all classes have perfectly viable pvp options. Also every class has exotics that are very busted if used correctly & in combination with perfect perks. Example: ever come against a veritys brow warlock with enhanced ashes to assets & bomber with all ordinance mods? They can spam ohk nade in every fight they get into. With that out of the way, supers. We all know about striker. So, spectral blades... grants wall hacks & invis. In the hands of a skilled player there really is no counter to the class. 1) they can see your entire team and make callouts 2) do you know how easy it is to chaperone/snipe people when you can see thru walls? In comp, good luck beating a team of spectral hunters running chaperone,nf. Warlocks, let’s talk about dawnblade. It’s probably the best super for locks but storm is also good. 1) you can’t miss with it 2) no one can escape you 3) you can dodge anything (except maybe missile titan). Striker titan doesn’t beat dawnblade unless the warlock is running on the ground and the titan gets a surprise first hit. I guess the point is, all classes have viable options, and all supers are pretty busted. Titan definitely feels bad to go against out of super.. but if you run into a dawnblade or spectral... whats the difference? You still die lol. I’d say nerf the duration gained on kill by bottom tree but that’s it. Also the super is really the only good thing about that tree in pvp. If i had a seed of light id go missile titan and never look back.

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      • Didn't read. Commented anyway.

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        • Bottom tree sunbreaker with Heart of Inmost Light is amazing. I’m not a OEM bottom tree striker titan scrub. [b]Real Titans, punch shit in the face.[/b]

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          • As a Titan I can get behind this, I have heard many complaints about it in PvP and they seem pretty valid. Although I would note that while a PvP nerf is in order it should be seperate from PvE where the bottom tree and basically all of striker could be considered just ok, or even a bit underwhelming. Especially in comparison to middle void tree, which tends to be far better at trash mob killing. Honestly almost every titan super needs a buff in PvE, even top tree hammers are rather lack luster, they are the most used but only because most everything else is that much worse. Compared to many other abilities it doesn't really feel like it stacks up. It's boss damage is not exactly great, it's add killing abilities are kind of mediocre. Supers like dawn blade generally out perform it in basically every way. But in general I very much agree with you, for what ever reason Bungie has decided to ignore titans in two completely different ways that the community has been talking about a lot. They have ignored the many complaints about titans in PvP and the huge amount of complaints that titans are underwhelming to say the least in PvE. It just doesn't make any sense. Also on suppression, I don't understand why they are even giving the shield bash suppression when suppression itself is already considered an issue and extremely weak in PvE. I would have prefered that they actually fix suppression in general and made it useful in PvE rather than just throwing it on more abilities. it should be something that is fairly useful in PvE, especially for taking control of the battlefield, and yet due to its many limitations, people all but ignore the suppression effects on abilities.

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          • Hey dude, Im nowhere near qualified to make suggestions on PvP balancing or anything like that. On that note i can definitely agree with some points. Some things need to change but i dont think drastic changes are needed. OEM i feel is fine the way it is. It is strong but i dont think its OP. If anything maybe change the duration the enemy is marked? maybe a few seconds off of the timer? I'm a hunter main and i personally like the way everything is balanced. We have blade barrage to counter bottom tree smashers. we have the new twirly arc strider to counter most throw able supers. And Nightstalker that shuts down all supers lol We have dodge that reloads guns or a crazier dodge to get out of action. Playing QP Crucible solo queuing is a place to get frustrated. I'm not sure what game mode you play or how hardcore you are (probably alot better than me lol) I usually dont have fun in Crucible unless i have a buddy or two on coms with me. I'm getting way off topic. Titans and Warlocks need love too. The only issue i have in Crucible is the amount of damage it takes to kill roaming supers. as of now I think its 2 snipes to the head to kill a roamer? maybe a body and a head would be better? And in comp clash when people have a lead they just keep suicide to win lol overall PvP will get the balancing. might take time. The only thing i can suggest is play a meta to your teams advantage after all it is a team game. I personally never follow meta lol I run Lucky Pants with 2 hand cannons (love the cowboy style). with nightstalker to control points and stuff. I've been having alot of fun with it even if we get crushed. Play whatever style you enjoy and try not to get frustrated. Frustration leads to bad plays and ultimately more frustration. Have fun out there Guardian!

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            • I really don't get the comparisons that are made that titans are better in pvp than hunters. Hunters class ability alone makes it waaaaay better. Is shoulder charge strong? Yes. Is a suppressing shoulder charge gonna be crazy? Yes. But that doesn't make an entire class better than another. Hunters all around have the best neutral game, which is what makes them the choice for most players in pvp. I can't tell you how many times I've lost 1v1s BECAUSE of marksman dodge. Super annoying. If you are gonna nerf titans, at least nerf dodge too at that point.

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              • a word about titans tank a word about hunters agile a word about warlocks tactical

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                • I'm a titan Main... can I get a TL:DR lol

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                  • So many "Titan has nothing else for PvP!" clowns. One particular clown argues that shoulder charge is not good because shotguns counter it(!). Shoulder charge also acts as a shotgun you clown! And what better way to get heavy ammo other than barricade? Is captain america super bad? Is thor super bad? Is supression granade bad? All classes are viable in PvP. OEM is just stupidly OP. Enough with your excuses.

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                    • As a Titan main it is sooooo nice to finally have a Titan meta... this game has been built around hunters for far too long... all this jumping and dodging and running away and crab walking....i mean how can you possibly play so scared all of the time? with that said bottom tree striker is OP and needs to be nerfed. Surpress on shoulder charge adds to the fantasy of a Void Titan. Shoulder charge is only OP against extremely bad players. 1 shotgun kills before contact and all you have to do is jump and they miss! difficult!. Code of the missle is the best titan subclass IMO. Crispy 2 taps with duke with Inertia Overide. Super comes back super fast and is the closest thing we have currently to OG Fist of Havoc. There should be no Super duration increases and no regen of health is super. Snipers should be able to one hit kill with a head shot as should shotguns in optimal ranges. PS why is the hunter with wall hacks crying about anything? seriously all this crab walking to get wall hacks has made the crucible worse then ever... seriously id rather play against 6 bottom tree strikers then 6 scared hunters with wall hacks crab walking all over the map

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                      • I like your post and you make legit points. I play all 3 classes and yes bottom tree striker is a problem. I agree with your suggestion for striker and dawnblade by splitting the abilities to make the other tree viable. Just wish bungie would listen for once

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                      • No, more shoulders. I’m telling you, I want huge shoulders. HUGE! I am not joking, give me more, send them off the screen! ALL THE WAY TO THE MOON BABY! I WANT TO SEE THE CRACKS MY SHOULDERS HAVE CARVED INTO THE MOON’S SURFACE WHEN WE GO BACK IN SHADOWKEEP

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                      • I liked this post a whole lot and really think it’s great. Would also like your views on warlock. Right now I feel like bottom dawnblade is good, and top stormcaller can be competitive with the exotic helm. But I really won’t have much of a use of any of them after Shadowkeep. Top tree nova is ok, but the neutral game and synergy is garbage while the super itself is pretty good in pve. Pvp it’s ok, but often too slow to use it for anything but super shutdown point blank. Nova warp is just bad. Handheld supernova is ok, but often times inconsistent and unreliable. Sometimes it snipes people and sometimes it will only get them half or less. Plus contraverse hold is the same. Unreliable. The super itself is what a completely neutered bottom tree smash would look like. The teleport/R1 attack takes up an insane amount of super and only teleports a very short distance, while the super itself is only useful when charging up the blast. With charging the big one, the super is useless as the small blasts don’t even do enough to kill anything. The speed of the super itself is terrible too. Anyone can outrun it easily. And it will almost always lose a super fight because it needs 2 big blasts to kill any super. That’s 2 charge times and the animation time in between. Bottom tree has devour. Which other classes say is op, but almost no one uses that tree. That’s because it has no place in pvp and only is of use in horde activities with tons of enemies around. While the vortex nova itself is probably the worst super in the game. Does little damage, has terrible drop-off, and has the smallest blast radius ever. Chaos reach is ok. Has great damage capabilities(although bad dps due to something like celestial or nova being instant damage) with geomag stabilizers. But the reason it’s honestly not great is the camera angle. You can even see what your aiming at 90% of the time. Other than that it’s a good tree. Just not amazing, but I don’t think it’s supposed to be. Bottom tree storm is garbage. Through and through. The arc “buddies” don’t do enough damage in pve to make any sort of difference, while in pvp they are too gimmicky and don’t make too much of a difference either because of the faster ttk. The super itself is just a shorter, slower, and less effective top tree super. The landfall has such small radius and is super inconsistent with the damage done. While the speed is slow enough that it often can’t close any gaps and gets easily shutdown or people can flee from. And why use this over top tree in pve where it lasts longer and can close distances easier. Top tree dawnblade. Whoop dee doo. Idk how this super hasn’t been buffed yet. The in-air accuracy is terrible and no amount of Icarus mods can fix that. Why it isn’t intrinsic with the subclass I don’t know. The super itself is a throw away. Not any good and everyone knows it. Icarus dash is an aerial dodge that doesn’t really help in any way, but still has a 7 second cooldown for absolutely no reason. Middle tree well of radiance. The would-be king. Now dethroned. The nerfs will render it irrelevant. Now honestly, I agree with all of the nerfs to lunafaction and even damage resistance. But now there’s no reason to run the tree. In pve people will just use a bubble and a healing rift on the outside. No change. Now it’s buff sucks too for some reason. The resistance in pvp though... just not good. It often made little difference and you could still get shotgunned out of it constantly. Or fusioned. Or literally anything. I say just rework the super in some way. Give us radiance back. I don’t even need self-Rez, I’ll just take radiance with radiant skin. Or add on Viking funeral and see more usage. Idk. Those are my thoughts, but I’d really like to hear your opinion on this. I agree with all of what you said above and you seem intelligent. I may be biased because I’m a warlock main tho lol.

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                        • I can agree big time. I never use bottom tree for striker, i always use top tree for the double nades + zoning aoe. I want that middle tree for sunbreaker to buffed badly. Like its unreal.

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                        • You’re officially the only Hunter on here that I like. Lol. very well written, and as a Titan main, I completely agree with everything on here. Take my upvote.

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                          • I’m a titan main and probably didn’t realize three quarters of what you wrote! Apparently there’s a lot more science to this than I thought and I’m glad someone is keeping track. Very good assessment. That hammer throwing exotic sounds fun too. Your TED talk gets a 10/10 from me.

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                          • 由SOOPS-PC編輯: 9/10/2019 12:35:35 PM
                            I agree with a lot of that but 2 things jump out to me. OEM is the most op exotic in pvp ever and needs nerfing into the ground. Damage boost, tracking through walls and an overshield, its bollocks. Burning maul heavy attack can literally pull 90 degree turns round corners. It has a wider blast radius than the trail of fire and doesn't seem to have any upper limit so you can't jump over it.

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                            • Just a note: There's no mention in the TWAB about biotic enhancements not stacking. I suspect that it will still work as it only affects super and melee damage, not weapon damage.

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                            • Your views are very unrealistic and some downright false. Titans dont need a pve buff. They have synthocepts, skull, worm with bottom tree void that heals ENTIRE team on melee kill AND stacks. They have fire pits for bottomed tree fire that kills and buffs.They have beep beep arms for melee protection. They have boots for reflecting SUPER PROJECTILES. One eyed mask does NOT give instant health. In the words of Charlie Murphy, "you would have a gunfight after that, somebody HAD TO DIE." You hunters and warlocks and fake titans complain about OEM, but maybe I missed something, is there another exotic in the game that requires death as the catalyst to even USE the exotic? Marking enemies is great, but you know what is better? SEEING THROUGH %÷&-;$*: WALLS! I had no idea for almost a year how people were getting drops on me, but being able to see through walls cleared everything up... Also, I'd love to know what other options titans have besides bottomed tree striker and OEM for pvp? Shotguns shut down shoulder charges what seems like over a year ago, ward of dawn pops vs nova and blades, and I just love being killed vs every other super besides tickle finger warlocks, and even then sometimes I'm left trying to figure things out. Titans were imo great, but with barricade leaving, we are short on RAID utility (not pve, RAID!) That barriers reload is a staple, and to remove it without sufficient replacement is detrimental to titans, but please, give and take credit where its needed. If anything, titans comparitively suck in pvp.

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                              • I approve of everything said here. In response to Titans getting yet another suppression ability other than grenades, this makes Tether, the [b]Super[/b], look bad. I'm not sure where should should be an inherent ability or an exotic, but I feel like Tether should drain Super energy over time on it's victims. This would make for an interesting decision for both sides, the Hunter can decided to not kill immediately and let the Tether do it's thing or just kill the captured group immediately. On the other hand the victims can decide whether to try and fight, but In so doing would get their super drained, they can decide and fight the Tether to stop the drain and then probably be killed. Either way this makes Tether a step above a a melee/grenade ability.

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                                • Titans are good for a few months and hunters lose their sh!t !!! Go figure. You’re just pissed you’re not top of the food chain right now. Hunters have had 5 long years at the top. Sit back and enjoy the ride hypocrite! GD that felt good to say!!!

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                                  • Largely agree. Thundercrash for one. BUT Don’t be shy. Fûck all the scarred and timid -blam!- who can’t call an orange and orange. Eye mask is OP and over used because it’s fûcking amazing. Eye mask and the erentil is one of my favorites currently.

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                                    • Your vision is understandable and unique then other hunters who can't see. Now this is truesight Bump! - from Main warlock

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