That moment when you realize your argument is fallacious.

To suggest that universal phone chargers are worth time is laughable. To suggest that time could be not better spent elsewhere is daft. It is a trivial task that will have little if any true impact. The flood loves to through around the word fallacy without ever realising the implications of doing so.

Your argument does nothing to further the conversation. To suggest that we should completely forget about smaller problems if they're not big problems is patently absurd. [quote]To suggest that time could be not better spent elsewhere is daft.[/quote] By your logic, you should completely abandon Bungie.next because there are bigger problems in the world. Goodbye and good riddance, I tip my hat to you, sir.

[quote]Your argument does nothing to further the conversation.[/quote] What conversation? I simply rebutted you ill-thoughted attempt to trivialise real issues by saying that simple inconveniences deserve just as much consideration. [quote]To suggest that we should completely forget about smaller problems if they're not big problems is patently absurd.[/quote] It's not even a problem- it's an inconvenience. [quote]By your logic, you should completely abandon Bungie.next because there are bigger problems in the world. Goodbye and good riddance, I tip my hat to you, sir. [/quote] That's not the same logic at all. I am here for recreational purposes, my job is not to make legislation and to address the issues of many countries, or even a single country. Critical thinking is a good attribute to have. [quote]Goodbye and good riddance,[/quote] Childish.

[quote]It's not even a problem- it's an inconvenience.[/quote] It's a problem. There is no logical reason why we should not have universal chargers except for companies wanting more money out of consumers. [quote]That's not the same logic at all. I am here for recreational purposes, my job is not to make legislation and to address the issues of many countries, or even a single country.[/quote]Using a phone can also be for purely recreational purposes, and yet by your logic it's somehow wrong to want phones to be better in the future. [quote]Critical thinking is a good attribute to have.[/quote] Ha! You're one to talk. Also, condescension is a very [quote]Childish.[/quote]thing to do.

[quote]It's a problem. There is no logical reason why we should not have universal chargers except for companies wanting more money out of consumers. [/quote] And here is the source of our disagreement, we have very different definitions of what a "problem" is. [quote]Using a phone can also be for purely recreational purposes, and yet by your logic it's somehow wrong to want phones to be better in the future.[/quote] You seemed to have misinterpreted the context of my statement. The MP's drawing up and voting on this so-called "issue" is not recreational usage of time. I'd argue that currently it is a waste of time given the intensifying issue in Ukraine. And universal charger = better phones? Please, let's be serious. [quote]Ha! You're one to talk.[/quote] Considering that you have failed to recognise the issue I have, and there is nothing to support poor critical thinking on my part- not all. I'll dumb it down for you. Given current events, drafting legislation, and voting on it is a waste of time and is trivialising more pressing concerns that the EU is failing to address in an appropriate manner.

[quote]And here is the source of our disagreement, we have very different definitions of what a "problem" is.[/quote] Luckily for us, there's a [url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/problem]definition[/url] for the word "problem": [quote]something that is difficult to deal with : something that is a source of trouble, worry, etc.[/quote] This certainly qualifies as a problem. [quote]You seemed to have misinterpreted the context of my statement. The MP's drawing up and voting on this so-called "issue" is not recreational usage of time. I'd argue that currently it is a waste of time given the intensifying issue in Ukraine.[/quote] The fact of the matter is, the issue in the Ukraine is not something that requires full, undivided attention. There's only a limited number of scenarios that can happen, and the most reasonable of them (sanctions, etc) are already in the works. [quote]And universal charger = better phones? Please, let's be serious.[/quote] I am serious. I'll repeat: there is no logical reason why we should not have universal chargers except for companies wanting more money out of consumers. [quote]I'll dumb it down for you. Given current events, drafting legislation, and voting on it is a waste of time and is trivialising more pressing concerns that the EU is failing to address in an appropriate manner.[/quote] As I've said previously, most actions that countries can possibly take are already happening or are in the works right now. We cannot simply expect to drop everything we're doing whenever some arbitrary conflict in a foreign country takes place. It didn't happen with Georgia, why would it happen with Ukraine? I should also add that your argument is fallacious because it has brought this sub-thread completely off-topic from the OP. You have still yet to sufficiently debate the merits of having universal phone chargers.

[quote]We cannot simply expect to drop everything we're doing when some arbitrary conflict in a foreign country takes place. It didn't happen with Georgia, why would it happen with Ukraine?[/quote] I never suggested to stop and drop everything, but rather prioritise- and this "problem" is not a priority. There is a referendum taking place in 2 days, this is not an arbitrary issue- Does it need undivided attention? Until the EU get's its act together and actually agrees to do something other than send some forces to neighbouring countries and "consider" sanctions, unless the other issues are very important- then yes. After the situation is addresses properly, then by all means pass laws on trivial inconveniences such as phone charges. Also: [quote]something that is difficult to deal with : something that is a source of trouble, worry, etc.[/quote] Having phone charges that are different is not something difficult to deal with or a source of "trouble/worry". It's an inconvenience- calling it a problem is giving it undeserved attention. It's attune to saying it's pouring out, when there is only a mist.

I'll preface this post with the last paragraph of my previous post: [quote]I should also add that your argument is fallacious because it has brought this sub-thread completely off-topic from the OP. You have still yet to sufficiently debate the merits of having universal phone chargers.[/quote] [quote]I never suggested to stop and drop everything, but rather prioritise- and this "problem" is not a priority. [/quote] Oh, but you did: [quote]To suggest that universal phone chargers are worth time is laughable. To suggest that time could be not better spent elsewhere is daft.[/quote] [quote]There is a referendum taking place in 2 days, this is not an arbitrary issue- Does it need undivided attention? Until the EU get's its act together and actually agrees to do something other than send some forces to neighbouring countries and "consider" sanctions, unless the other issues are very important- then yes.[/quote] It's an issue that in no way affects the EU directly. Ukraine, yes, but the EU, no. It violates international law and nothing more. [quote]Having phone charges that are different is not something difficult to deal with or a source of "trouble/worry". It's an inconvenience- calling it a problem is giving it undeserved attention. It's attune to saying it's pouring out, when there is only a mist.[/quote] It's a problem because it's something that clearly doesn't need to exist, yet exists anyway because companies profit from it.

[quote]Oh, but you did:[/quote] I never explicitly stated said words. [quote]It's an issue that in no way affects the EU directly. Ukraine, yes, but the EU, no. It violates international law and nothing more.[/quote] That's a very naive opinion that is not at all supported by the actions of the EU. [quote]It's a problem because it's something that clearly doesn't need to exist, yet exists anyway because companies profit from it.[/quote] A very trivial problem that does not warrant consideration at the current time. Whether or not the need to exist is not the issue, I mean, power utilities around the world don't need to use different outlets either. The issue is that it is a thing so trivial, it deserves no attention at the present time.

That still doesn't have much of anything to do with the topic at hand. [quote]I never explicitly stated said words. [/quote] Nice job changing your argument from "suggesting" >.> [quote]That's a very naive opinion that is not at all supported by the actions of the EU.[/quote] The EU is slapping Russia with sanctions... just like the US, which is an entire ocean away. The only way I can think of that has really impacted the EU in this is not having Ukraine join it. [quote]A very trivial problem that does not warrant consideration at the current time. Whether or not the need to exist is not the issue, I mean, power utilities around the world don't need to use different outlets either.[/quote] I don't see how that's relevant. The OP is specifically addressing the EU, not the entire world. [quote]The issue is that it is a thing so trivial, it deserves no attention at the present time.[/quote] The issue will still exist, and political strife will probably always exist, so if not now, then when are we allowed to ever address this issue?

[quote]Nice job changing your argument from "suggesting" >.>[/quote] My argument has never changed. How you have interpreted my argument has. I'll admit, I may not have been clear- but it was implied- I never came out and said this "issue" should [b]never[/b] be addressed. [quote]The EU is slapping Russia with sanctions... just like the US, which is an entire ocean away. The only way I can think of that has really impacted the EU in this is not having Ukraine join it.[/quote] They have not done so yet. UK and US have a treaty with Ukraine which Russia has violated. Keep in mind the gas the much of the EU relies on travels through Ukraine.... and if we pretend that gas imports in the EU will remain unaffected if Russia does annex Crimea- then we need to examine how the reputation of the EU will be adversely affected by failing to intervene in such a blatant disregard for treaties signed to prevent this very thing. [quote] I don't see how that's relevant. The OP is specifically addressing the EU, not the entire world.[/quote] It's an exaggerated comparison, there are many things that should not exist, but do exist. The point I am trying to make here is NOT that we should ignore these "problems" entirely, but we need to learn how to prioritise, and we need to learn when it is appropriate to address them. [quote]The issue will still exist, and political strife will probably always exist, so if not now, then when are we allowed to ever address this issue?[/quote] Yes, the issue will always exist, but it is not a continuous issue. Europe is not Africa, or Asia- it is fairly stable. When instability occurs, it is only proper to address the issue immediately and put lesser concerns aside momentarily. In this case, once the Ukraine situation is deescalated- THEN it would be appropriate to spend valuable time on other concerns such as the phone charger. The core of my augment is about prioritising.