CLARIFICATION: This is not about me, I am not here complaining as a low skill player trying to get good.
CLARIFICATION: I don't want vanilla back. I am only using it as an example of a time when there was a larger skill gap, and how a larger skill gap allowed me to get better faster. In a low skill gap bad players are just using broken weapons and abilities - not challenging themselves to develop skill and etc
I am also not at all saying that special should be removed, I'm talking about anything, weapons or abilities that require zero skill to use...the cheesy and annoying stuff.
All of the cheese has allowed low skill players to achieve success in PVP.
It has also allowed high skill scum bags to become even scummier.
Complaints about lobby balance are also becoming more and more prevalent. High skill or above average players are losing matches bc they're matched with very low performing/contributing players.
We need our lower skill players to ACTUALLY LEARN AND GET BETTER. This means critically thinking about their engagements, positioning themselves, developing game sense, etc.
Cheesy OHK weapons and 0 skill gap is not the way to to do this.
Any sweat will tell you that to get better you have to compete with better players and get clapped till you figure it out. It just takes patience.
I started playing Destiny when D2 came out, vanilla was all I knew and I was a completely blank slate.
There were no shotguns, jotunns, mountaintops, OEM, le monarques, or any of the other cheese we have now.
I had to get good using the same bullet firing weapons that the sweats were bending me over with. The difference was that they were better than me. So I had to work hard to improve (using my brain/not cheesy OHK freebies), and it was super fulfilling to watch myself improve along the way.
Bad players will never get good without a skill gap.
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Many were extremely vocal in hating early D2 PvP, while it had issues with variety, I enjoyed it at its core. Early D2 felt like a Halo light. The biggest culprit was team shooting, however that’s exactly what Halo is and allowed it to competitively succeed for decades. Good players with a good shot can out duel multiple opponents at once, this is no different from fair starts/BR starts in H. While some considered it boring in D2, those in favor saw it as clean. I personally enjoy primary battles, I like out shooting and out thinking opponents to make plays versus shotgun apping or statue sniping at the start of a match. No special ammo starts, but having timed pickups on each side of the map creates movement. Having both teams fight for heavy in the middle doubles down on movement and rewards players for pushing and winning these engagements (versus being given something for free to start with and NOT moving). 4v4 made matches easier to speed up and slow down teamwork wise. Supers were defensive more than offensive, saving them to take down an opponent who popped off. It was a risk/reward situation and manageable, not a handful of free kills for a mindless click a few moments into the match. Even with these more grounded settings, it's still a very user friendly game as opposed to Halo. Destiny still wouldn't require as high a skill ceiling due to the games core mechanics. There are player penalties for hip firing, jumping and shooting, moving while ADS'ing and there is no de-scope. It's a very simple game at it's core and the gunplay is still fun. I miss this D2 and while I figured there was no way to revisit any semblance of it, I hadn't thought of a playlist instead. This makes both parties happy and there's really no reason not to implement it. I get that most want the series to feel unique, it still would, but I preferred a Destiny that resembled Bungie’s actual competitive past time instead of the more messy state of the game we have now.
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What makes one person a better player may not work for someone else. Maybe getting easy kills is what someone needs to give them the confidence that they can do this and get better.
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Maybe daily rotating various weapon buffs and nerfs... Im thinking like nightfall and reckoning where certain weapon types do better damage and others do worse? Each day cycles could reset so folks wont camp shotties or smgs or any meta. Just a thought.
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Изменено (FataLVisioN_Oo): 9/11/2019 4:04:38 AMThere is a skill gap. It's pretty massive. Go play with a team that is afraid to leave the spawn then go play with people that aren't afraid to move around and shoot things. It's a huge difference. One "sweaty" player won't be able to save a team that's afraid to leave the spawn. That "sweaty" player will just get dumpstered on in 1v6's. He has a chance though to take a few people with him with ohk weapons 😊 Dual primaries? That "sweaty" player will just be a flaming hot dumpster fire in a 1v6. Instead of running in a team of 6.. try solo queing and tell us how you really feel. I'm sorry a solo player killed you with a ohk weapon while you were in a 6 stack.
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Изменено (Oh look a free name change): 9/12/2019 1:58:07 AMHey Synocracy, thanks for sharing your opinion. I’ve been playing PvP on Destiny 1 and 2 for 5 years (still haven’t done a raid yet on D2) and I’ve accepted the fact that we just have to adapt. I used to talk about PvP a lot on the old forums and noticed there was always 2 big sides to it. I used to think Year 1 Destiny 1 was the perfect meta until I saw other people’s perspective of it. My best suggestion for Bungie would just be to add a mode for mainly gunfights (restrict certain things so no nerfs needed) and see where that goes. When something gets out of hand like Lord of Wolves we can obviously all agree on a nerf but the current state is good enough I believe. Right now I just get a little annoyed by shotgun warriors but it is what it is. I know I didn’t say a lot in terms of changes but it’s to enforce the fact that we have to adapt for what’s next in line for us. Also I’ll link my D1 stats [url=https://destinytracker.com/destiny/overview/xbox/Self%20resurrect]here[/url] and my D2 stats wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over [url=https://destinytracker.com/d2/profile/xbl/Self%20resurrect]here[/url]. Now that I think about it, the most fun state for me was a year ago around the time Vigilance Wing was top tier. Not sure why that was a short lived meta though.
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This is why there needs to be a game mode with preset weapons and no abilities or supers. End this discussion once and for all. Then when people complain you can just say “go play the balanced game mode” and if they say no, they obviously don’t want balance.
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If classes were balanced like an rpg then you wouldn’t be complaining about ohk’s. If only titans were slower but tankier, hunters were faster but fragile, and warlocks were the middle ground with more ability options. The game won’t change because it was designed like a shooter. If d3 rumours are true about it being more rpg focused, then hold out hope and wait till then
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Изменено (Synocracy): 9/11/2019 5:25:34 AMThe fact that this has been downvoted the amount that it has means that this community will never be intelligent enough to understand rudimentary concepts.
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Modded controllers and P2P connections don't help either, but good luck with that...
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With the way things are its impossible for a low skilled player to get better without wanted to get better. I hate meta and think it promotes broken things but in order to beat meta and make things to counter it you have to play it. A new player when they first play crucible isn't even thinking about the meta they are playing Just for fun and thats where they go wrong. I'm not telling new playing to become a 1 trick pony sweat but theu at least need to know what is what. They also need to stop going into crucible straight out like its CoD and wonder why they were destroyed.
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I always ignore the cheese and use something to have fun, although I do understand how it can be frustrating from a competitive point of view.
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You have only been here a year Come back in 4 years when this game has seasoned your perspective.
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I agree, the amount of cheese is ridiculous. Destiny is NOT a skillful shooter. You run around with OHK capable weapons the ENTIRE time and build up your super to run around with that, rinse and repeat.
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"Casually fires a Jotun into a group of elite players then shuffles away to safety, yoinks all the green drops and repeats." I don't feel bad about using Jotun, I just want those Pinacle quests done.
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Replace ammo drops from Guadiana to a special ammo box that spawns every so often and the crucible would be balanced
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Don’t worry I only got recluse for pve reasons, though it is even more broken in pvp
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I see what you’re trying to say but telling a lower skilled player to use harder things is asking them to die. They have to want to get better, and most players just feel satisfied with easy kills, which is ultimately why most low tier players get the shaft. High tier players don’t help either. Most of them use the cheesy stuff for easy kills as well, which boosts their virtual ego. It’s a shame really.
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How about you opening up a training camp? You could do it in private matches. Share your hard-earned skills with the less fortunate.
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You are such a kindergurdian hahahaha The post made me laugh 😂😂
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Bad players use the same crap as the best players. If the concept of positioning can’t make itself apparent to you in a [i]shooter[/i] then said person will only ever be so good. A lack of skill for some players is to be [i]expected[/i]. They might get better then they started but will always lag behind. This isn’t news. The skill difference between pve and pvp will [i]always[/i] give rise a large lesser skilled segment of the player base. So when they do pvp, you just have to deal with it. You don’t want to, get a fire team.
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Funnily enough, the extreme vast majority of OHK weapons are underwhelming. Hell, even Dist Rock sucks ass compared to damn near every single other game's shotguns. Erentil is probably the most overrated weapon I've seen in an FPS. It's good, sure, but it's got severe weaknesses that are really easy to exploit. Jötunn just plain and simple isn't good outside of cheesing people who are bad with the movement. The only OHK weapons that I can say warrant anything near complaints are snipers and slug shotguns, [i]maybe[/i] Lord of Wolves. Sorry, but this isn't Halo, don't try to make it Halo, just play Halo.
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Replace 'higher skill gap' with 'camping lanes with 4 MIDAs and we're in business There was also Wormhusk, the reset button given to Hunters to screw over their opponent
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CBMM doesnt help people get better either. Looks like we need sbmm in everything.
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"I dislike all the training wheels that have been implemented into the game, and I feel like it takes away a lot from player investment, because why try to get better at the game when you could just use a weapon or exotic armor piece that does it for you" - CammyCakes 09/12/2019
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Изменено (michael): 9/11/2019 11:37:08 AMSnipers and shotguns definitely do take skill man. I agree with you on OEM and mountaintop but as far as OHK weapons go I think snipers and shotguns are fine.
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Изменено (ALBOBOSS): 9/12/2019 4:53:11 AMJotunn, mountain top and le monarque are cheese weapons 🤦♂️ None of what you mentioned are remotely competitive in mid to high level pvp. Jotunn is usually used by bottom players (no offense meant) and anyone that strafes can easily counter them. You should not talk about pvp if you have such a poor understanding of it. Edit - To add my thoughts and contribute to the conversation: Specials have a skill just like any weapon. The have a low skill floor (except snipers) but the skill ceiling is still there. A higher level player will dominate a lower level player given the same special weapon is equipped.