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Destiny

Общее обсуждение Destiny.
впервые опубликовано в:The Ashen Conflux
Изменено (KAGEHOSHI): 1/2/2016 7:28:56 PM
18

The Awoken and The Veil

[b]2 more posts are linked at the bottom of this post detailing the traits and abilities of the Awoken, a brief look at the Nine, and the collaboration of Eris and the queen.[/b] We know something happened to the Awoken as they tried to flee the solar system during the Collapse. Whatever hit them made them something that is between the light and the dark (dark, implying the involvement of the Darkness). The Exo Stranger described that is being on neither side, and The Queen grimoire card supports this. [quote]"I am noble too, oh Lord of Wolves. Starlight was my mother; and my father was the dark." (The Queen)[/quote] [b]STARLIGHT[/b] I think it's significant that specifically starlight was mentioned. We know there are different types of light (void, solar, arc) and that there are different sources. Ex: Traveler's light, and the tiny spark of light that all living things have. Proof: [quote]You have no Light beyond the spark of your pathetic life. (Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2)[/quote] "Starlight" may refer to a new specific type of light. I don't think it's literally the light of stars; [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/170958432/0/0]the light we talk about is also not photons, it's a type of "magic" from the Traveler that goes beyond material physics[/url]. We use principles of quantum particles to turn our Traveler's light into solar, principles of binding forces to make our light arc, and principles of the vacuum to make our light void (Solar, Arc, and Void grimoire). Something from regular physics like stars likely is not the source of the "starlight," and I believe the name to be a metaphor. When the queen's brother crashed on Mars after the battle with Oryx, he tried to sense his sister. He sensed starlight. This makes it clear that "starlight" is some new form of magic light, and not just light from the sun or stars (or else he would just sense it everywhere in the system). [quote]He tried again, to home in on her, to find if she truly gave herself for this battle. He felt close to something, a hum of starlight (The Aftermath)[/quote] Interestingly, starlight is linked to the Taken as well according to Eris and Ikora. Why are Taken associated with any kind of light at all given that they are corrupted by the Darkness itself according to the Books of Sorrow? [quote]I have been talking to Eris about the Taken. She agrees that what we observe — the apertures, the starlight, and of course the Taken entities (The Taken)[/quote] The apertures (holes) sound like blights, which are 3-dimensional holes to where the Taken come from, but I don't know what the starlight specifically referred to. [b]THE VEIL[/b] The queen and the coven mother of the Techeuns (AKA tech-witches) have the ability to look beyond something called the veil. [quote]The amulet around her neck marked Illyn as the coven’s mother, granting her visions beyond the veil, places only the Queen could go. (The Coven)[/quote] We also know the veil has to do with seeing possible versions of the future. Lakshmi-2 might dock me reputation for sharing our secrets, but Future War Cult (FWC) has a Golden Age prototype device that allows those who step into it to "open the veil," and see possible futures. [quote]reported the sensation we have called "The Opening Of The Veil." The Device recorded temporal displacement of her consciousness. (Ghost Fragment: Future War Cult)[/quote] The Radiance of the Sunsinger warlock seems to be associated with the veil. [quote]The Sunsinger is proof that the Light is everywhere. The wings of Radiance allow a Guardian to fly beyond the veil. What further proof do you need, Speaker? (Path of the Sunsinger questline)[/quote] [quote]A Warlock in a state of Radiance threatens to slip beyond the bonds of the material (Radiance)[/quote] Beyond the veil seems to be where the thanatonauts go to for their visions. Thanatonauts are warlocks that commit suicide to get visions and knowledge before being revived by their ghosts. Interestingly, the thanatonaut Pujari used this method to get visions of the past also. [quote]A thousand Thanatonauts on a thousand journeys have made only the tiniest of tears in death's veil. (Bond of Veils description)[/quote] [quote]I am Pujari. These are the visions I have had of the Black Garden. The Traveler moved across the face of the iron world. (Legend: The Black Garden)[/quote] There are clues that beyond the veil is more than just a "place" to see alternate futures and the past, but it is also a universe that is more "real" than ours, and that we might just be a pale shadow of (makes me think of Plato). The essence of things exists beyond the veil, and our universe is like a projection created by it. [quote]Your bullets reach beyond the veil to strike enemies at their purest essence. (Mos Morsus III description)[/quote] Maya Sundaresh, the Golden Age researcher that would go on to create FWC confirmed that the time-viewing device based on Vex gate systems. This leads me to believe that the Vex perform time travel by crossing the veil, and that the Black Garden exists beyond the veil. I would speculate that Thanatonauts gain knowledge from beyond the veil through the same principles as the FWC machine. [quote]We built the device in mimicry of the Vex gateway systems from Ishtar. (Ghost Fragment: Vex 5)[/quote] The view of existential supremacy of beyond the veil presented in the Mos Ardus III description is reminiscent of something Eris said to Ikora about the Taken. Much like the essence and realness of a thing is hidden beyond the veil, so too are Taken a more real. This leads to believe that the place that the Taken are taken to (the Darkness) exists beyond the veil. I don't think it's the only thing beyond the veil though. [quote]I try to use the word ‘shadow’ but Eris hisses at me. A shadow is a flat projection cast by a light and an object. Less real. Eris insists that these Taken are more real, somehow. She uses words like inhabited, exalted, rendered final... (The Taken)[/quote] Now consider that the queen can call the dark. [quote]STARLIGHT WAS MY MOTHER.[...] AND MY FATHER WAS THE DARK. Here, at last, too late, the Kell begins to feel fear. CALL ON THEM, THEN, the Kell sends, one last mocking signal before death and ruin, AND SEE WHAT HELP THEY OFFER. So the Queen calls, as only she can. (Ghost Fragment: Fallen 4)[/quote] Conclusions on the veil: The Black Garden exists outside of time, and thus beyond the veil. The Heart is a piece of the Darkness, which is shows that at least some portions of the Darkness are beyond the veil. We know the queen speaks to the dark, and that she can see beyond the veil, so it also makes sense that she uses her ability to reach beyond the veil to call the Darkness, or an affiliated less scary lowercase dark. This is just a hunch, but I suspect the "starlight" might be from beyond the veil. [b]To sum up beyond the veil:[/b] - the essence of existence lies there. - can be used to access visions of the past, present, and future. - the Vex travel beyond the veil with their gateway systems. - potentially where the darkness resides. [b]HARBINGERS & THE AGELESS WAR[/b] The biggest mystery about the Awoken to me is the origin of the Harbingers. They are some sort of minds used as weapons that manipulate gravity; these were used by the Awoken in the battle against Oryx. [quote]They were all connected in trance, communing as the ancients did. Speaking would tip their hand to the Harbinger Minds they kept here, trophies from an ageless war, and weapons in the right hands. (The Coven)[/quote] I hypothesize that the Harbingers truly exist beyond the veil, and that they don't have a physical existence in our universe, (hence why they are referred to as just minds, and only appear as glowing orbs). The lack of physical body makes sense given how they need to use dead things to reproduce. The dead things could to act as vessels for the beings lacking bodies. [quote]The Harbingers, which to prepare?” [...] “All but one, the oldest. It stays with us. Sedia, Kalli, Shuro, take the children, tell her they are to be planted into a dead thing to have children of their own.” (The Coven)[/quote] Now what ageless war do the Awoken speak of? It can't be against the House of Wolves, because the "trophies" implies that they were taken from the enemy, but the Wolves never had the Harbingers. It isn't a war against the Darkness because the Reef has been mostly ambivalent, and have not taken sides in favor of light or Darkness (according to the Exo Stranger) until fairly recently. The most likely candidate for the Awoken's enemies in the ageless war, and the original owners of the Harbingers, might be... [i]the Nine[/i]. It makes sense given the physical proximity of the Reef to the Jovian worlds the Nine rule, and the Nine also seem to exist beyond the veil, as they live in another world, and are vulnerable in ours. [quote]He says the Nine are vulnerable ever moment they touch our world. (Brother Vance dialogue)[/quote] EDIT: New theory on harbingers and the Nine [b][url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/183854591/0/0]here[/url][/b] [b]Continued in comments[/b] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/171887403/0/0][b]AWAKENING[/b][/url] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/171886746/0/0][b]THE JOVIANS & THE NINE / ERIS & THE QUEEN[/b][/url] [b]For more theories by me, I refer you to the [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/183288968/0/0]Collected Treatises of The Warlock KAGEHOSHI[/url].[/b]

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  • Изменено (KAGEHOSHI): 12/5/2015 8:27:03 PM
    [b]THE JOVIANS & THE NINE[/b] This really depressing excerpt from the "Skolas: Defeated" card (poor Variks) hints to some entities the Awoken communicate with. The Darkness, and the Jovians. The word Jovian means relating to Jupiter. It's important to note that the term Jovian planets not only include Jupiter, but also Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune (why it's important will be clear later). [quote]The unfairness of it makes him want to roar. Why does everyone else have this patronage? Why do the Hive have gods and the Vex have [...] Why do the Awoken whisper to the stars and listen for the whisper back, [b]the voices from the Jovians, the song in the dark[/b]? Why do the Guardians get the Great Machine's blessing, was it like that before the Whirlwind, were there Fallen heroes crowned in Ghosts who strode the battlefield fearless and full of Light? Why do they tell stories about reclaiming the lost glory of humanity, and no stories about the lost glory of Variks' people[/quote] Rhea is a moon of Saturn, and we've established that Saturn is a Jovian planet. It seems to me that the Jovians are the Nine (or some of the Jovians are of the Nine) since the Nine seem to own Rhea, which is in Jovian territory. The Nine took offense to the Awoken entering their territory (Rhea, perhaps other Jovian regions) without their permission. [quote]"More of your brother's Crows have entered the Cauldrons of Rhea." The Witch directly before her spoke with a dry buzz. "The Nine do not approve." (Ghost Fragment: The Queen)[/quote] The Nine and Awoken have a very close relationship it seems, at least as close as anyone. This isn't new information, but I found it worth mentioning [b]ERIS & THE QUEEN (Dedicated thread on it [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/177897225/0/0]here[/url])[/b] So Eris (a hunter without a ghost) met with the queen to get her help into stopping Oryx. [quote]"You don't have one." The Hunter came to a halt in front of the throne, raised her covered face to meet the Prince's gaze. "No," she agreed. "My next death will be my last." [...] "[...] I will do anything—" her low voice shook with passion— "to end Oryx." [...] A silence rang out in the room. The Hunter kept her head raised, her ambiguous gaze directed at the shadows in the throne where the Queen reclined. Then a small smile curved the Queen's lips. "Well said." She straightened, and leaned slightly forward so the room's light fell on her face. "So let us end him." (Ghost Fragment: The Queen 2)[/quote] In the Taken King's opening cinematic, the queen says this. [quote]You and I know how this ends. We've known since you escaped from that... pit. [...] This was all part of the plan. Guide them, my Hidden friend[/quote] We know Eris escaped the moon (the word "pit" is often used when talking of the Moon). We know that Eris part of Ikora Rey's Hidden (her spies). It seems that she is speaking to Eris, and not Oryx as the visuals would imply. Given how Queen Mara Sov and the Techeuns can look ahead to see possible futures, it seems a bit strange for her to fight Oryx's deadnaught the way it did if she knew the likely outcome. This is further reinforced by this: [quote]The Techeuns should’ve known what the Dreadnaught could do. Must’ve known. (The Aftermath)[/quote] I believe Mara Sov knew exactly what she was doing, but I don't understand what her plan was, or what it accomplished other than letting the City see what the Dreadnaught can do. Whatever the plan was, it invoved seeing through the veil and making use of multiple universes or timelines. [quote]The chamber was dark. The seven of them were rarely in a room together anymore, but this was the eve of their greatest journey, a plan that overcame death and spanned universes. (The Coven)[/quote] Anyway, this explains who Eris Morn was talking to at the end of the Taken King's Regicide mission. It was queen Mara Sov. If the queen has died, it might be another version of her from another universe, or her soul beyond the veil. [b]A comment on this comment adds some general info on Awoken powers and facts (telepathy, dual souls, possible immortality). [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/171887403/0/0]CLICK HERE[/url].[/b]

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