This may take a while to make some sense, I'm just trying to order my thoughts on it right now. So this is about Snoke's true identity and the nature of the Knights of Ren. One thing that wasn't included in the film, but popped up in the novelisation, was this exchange between Snoke and Kylo: [quote]“Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did.” Ren nodded once. “Sentiment.” “Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today.[/quote] It's a pretty insightful look at some of the hidden depth of the story, the motivations of Snoke and Kylo, their philosophy and goals. I wish it had been in the film. And I'll address its absence later. So Snoke is very, very old. That's been established (although now I can't find a source). He saw the rise and fall of the Empire, Palpatine's ascension and subsequent demise. The Sith had their revenge, though it wasn't without cost: Darths Maul, Tyrannus, Sideous, and Vader all perished in the affair. Now Snoke and Kylo are determined to finish what Palpatine's rule began. It has, however, been stated that neither men are Sith. Why not? Well, here's an idea: the Siths' adherence to the Rule of Two led to their downfall. Sideous only kept one apprentice at a time, the same as all the Sith Lords before him since Bane. Could Snoke have been observing the Sith Lord's rise to power from the sidelines, not technically a Sith himself, simply powerful in the Dark Side, and been taking notes? There's no mention of the Sith by the First Order, no implications that they are Sith in any way. Indeed, the Knights of Ren, according to Rey's vision, are many. Alternatively, Snoke is indeed Plagueis: perhaps he taught Sideous all he knew and let himself be 'killed', so he could observe his theory of self-destructive Sith in peace. So that's my theory: Snoke is strong in the Dark Side, but not a Sith. Perhaps he grew disillusioned with the Rule of Two. He has been skulking in the shadows for decades, and watching the Sith themselves squander their chances of lasting power by sticking to the Rule of Two. With the last of the Sith having self-destructed (Vader killed Sideous, who electrocuted Vader), Snoke rose with the First Order to bring a new faction of Dark Side users to power, and the Knights of Ren are their 'dark Jedi'. That speech not being in the film? Well, like I said, it's very illuminating. But I wonder if its absence means it's pretty superfluous, which would wobble my theory a little. Anyway, yay. Discus. And discuss. Craziest idea evar: Kylo's got a new scar now, same place as Snoke's. What if Snoke is Kylo talking to his past self. Or something.