Solar 3.0 was an attempt to balance top tree Dawnblade. Like it or not, it was too strong even before 3.0. Giving you Touch of Flame and the full movement kit now is just too much. Just because it didn’t get better with 3.0 doesn’t mean it got worse. People were still using Solar 2.0 lock even with Void 3.0.
English
-
it did get worse tho. top tree dawn is still basically exactly the same. middle tree got gutted with rift regen nerf, healing nade not giving OS (at least for solar lock), well get nerfed, daybreak duration from bottom tree got removed so it lasts 1 second. Phoenix dive got taken from a 5 second cooldown to a 1.5 minute cooldown
-
You do realize that those things got TUNED because they were gamebreaking and overpowered right? And overshield is a void buff, not Solar. You still get massive DR and insane healing in a well. Benevolence is a fragment now so regen is there. You can literally recreate all of those trees if you would like to. Bottom tree solar lock is the only tree that was actually lost. I will give you that. But the others were already the best options in the game for PvE and PvP. It’s fine that they didn’t get massive buffs and instead got brought back in line with everything else. People scream “NERF” when stuff gets tuned down or balanced because it’s oppressive and overpowered in PvE or PvP. These were fine changes. It was good for the game.
-
[quote]You do realize that those things got TUNED because they were gamebreaking and overpowered right? And overshield is a void buff, not Solar. You still get massive DR and insane healing in a well. Benevolence is a fragment now so regen is there. You can literally recreate all of those trees if you would like to. Bottom tree solar lock is the only tree that was actually lost. I will give you that. But the others were already the best options in the game for PvE and PvP. It’s fine that they didn’t get massive buffs and instead got brought back in line with everything else. People scream “NERF” when stuff gets tuned down or balanced because it’s oppressive and overpowered in PvE or PvP. These were fine changes. It was good for the game.[/quote] Overshield is a D1 perk that can be applied through Solar and Void. Op is right the series of nerfs to classes is entirely depressing And anyone who said abilities were game breaking has clearly not played many other video games. D2 has very lackluster perks that need a buff across the board.
-
Well this isn’t D1 so drop that point of your argument. And they’re changing the entire basis of their game with these updates. Don’t expect it to be perfect until they’ve had some time to flesh it out. Now everything is 3.0 and they can spend the next 6 months up to Lightfall making them feel good. If you’re not enjoying it, nobody is forcing you to log in.
-
You can't recreate bottom tree or middle tree anymore. Healing grenades replaces your actual grenade, meaning you don't have the option to either use it as a grenade or heal allies. You can't equip starfire protocol or sunbracers and have loads of healing nades. Bottom tree is essentially gone. Everything about it is gone. Kills extending super, phoenix dive as an extra healing option, the chain explosions, all gone. Dawnblade 3.0 is essentially top tree warlock + well
-
I acknowledged that bottom tree is gone. And while that’s unfortunate, I still think Solar warlock is much better than it gets credit for. And all of those things you mentioned were strong with the abilities we had before the 3.0 system. Being able to use them with the new abilities would be broken. Spam buffed heal grenades or having the versatility of two double explosion fusions / two buffed heal grenades with only an emp rift is broken. Think about it. You basically have a constant well with that. Drop your emp rift, heal Grenade, empyrean refreshes restoration and you can spam those fusions from there. That’s not balanced. That’s gamebreaking. The game really isn’t that hard. But stuff like that would make a contest raid feel like a playlist strike. And contest raids already don’t hurt as bad as they used to. You have to consider the balance and the power creep involved and how quickly we could further trivialize everything and remove every last bit of difficulty in the game. It would be so strong you wouldn’t have fun. If you think I’m wrong, try a high level Skyrim or Borderlands game. Keep that stuff over there. D2 is not that kind of game. And if Bungie decides that’s where they wanna go, I hope they can continue to crank up the difficulty at the same rate.
-
but please tell me how PHOENIX DIVE was ruining the game and needed a 1000% increase on CD time
-
Yes Phoenix Dive should be much shorter. I’d argue at least 50% reduction. I think 10-12 seconds at max Recov is fine. You need to be able to dive if you’re gonna play airborne.
-
i give you well is a top tier pve option but in the 2.0 state, saying solar lock was op in the crucible is hard copium. it wasnt the highest usage (4th), it didnt have the highest kd (3rd), it didnt have the highest win rate (4th). and before you say "source" be a big boy and go to warmind.io yourself. you wanna know who was above solar lock in all of those? void hunter and solar hunter. what happened to them? buff. buffs in pvp too. warlocks had the lowest pick rate of teams that completed the day 1 of KF. you need 1 well in a team of 6 ppl, everyone else should basically just go hunter.
-
I’m guessing it was the #1 crucible pick for warlocks though? That’s what matters. Hunters are literally built for PvP and they have a much larger playerbase than Warlocks so they’re GOING to be over warlock in PvP stats. Hunters are more viable now in PvE. But Warlocks also basically owned that arena for 2+ years. Titans are also good now. So just because everything is viable now makes warlock bad? My team had 2 warlocks, 3 titans, 1 hunter for day one KF and got the challenge clear. Well and Starfire was phenomenal for the whole thing for our warlocks. The strat for Deep Stone day one was 5 or 6 warlocks and maybe a Titan. If you want to see something funny, go look at the character usage back when WQ dropped. Hunter was pretty high but there’s a spike of warlock usage and a corresponding drop in Hunter and Titan on March 5 when Vow released. The other classes got brought up to Warlock levels with the 3.0 systems. Warlock mains are just mad because they only got slight improvements or adjustments here and there because they can’t accept the fact that they were ALREADY miles ahead of everyone else. They’re not “losing” the 3.0 system. And no one is “winning.” The game is becoming more balanced. And that is a good thing. The game has an ever shifting meta. Warlocks are rotating out and Titans and Hunters are coming up to match. People should be able to play whatever they want and adjust their personal playstyle from there. One class should not be the “must have” for everything. And right now, this is the most balanced the class system has every been.
-
Edited by ajpic: 9/2/2022 5:16:29 AMThat’s only because void 3.0 lock is not pvp focused at all. It’s a strictly pve one man army subclass with barely any support besides the child of old gods. It’s my main pve load out for non endgame activities. I only use solar 3.0 lock for end game because of the healing and well. Arc doesn’t get touched at all
-
I feel like people don’t even play this game before freaking out. There are ways to build 3.0 subclasses effectively. But now it takes a little more brainpower than “top, middle, or bottom diamond?” Take a few minutes to actually think about the possibilities and combos. The game is moving towards buildcrafting. Start learning how it works. Everything is viable in some way. You just need to find the combo that works best for you. But just because something isn’t strong for you doesn’t mean it’s not strong for someone else. Some of these are oppressive in the right hands or team compositions.
-
The real test for arc will be after the seasonal mods are gone
-
I have builds that don’t use any seasonal mods and they’re good. The same happened with Solar. You just have to think a little harder.