No, I wouldn’t call it a disciple though it is an entity.
The statue is in multiple places. No statues of the Witness anywhere.
Tells us that the figure is above the Witness.
The Witness follows the philosophy of the Winnower.
The Winnower has never used gender to refer to itself nor has anyone else. It only gets called “it”.
There is a god that has has its gender revealed to us.
The Gardner, confirmed by the Winnower and other lore tidbits, is a female.
So there is some debate about whether the two gods are truly separate or if they are the same in some way.
I’m leaning towards the two faced god, like Janus.
English
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Janus…. Oh no, the Witness is aiming to sterilise the human race? Jokes aside, I always enjoyed the interpretation that the statue symbolises both the Gardener and the Winnower. The Gardener being the woman, the Winnower being the cloak. But that supposes that the Unveiling lore book is true. All we can say definitively is that it doesn’t have anything to do with a singular Disciple, given that the statue has been present in the Black Garden, the Lunar Pyramid and the Europa Pyramid.
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That’s the rub. Why would they have them in the black fleet? You don’t worship your enemy. I don’t see any reason to doubt unveiling, especially now that it was the witness that lied to the hive. I mean the Winnower was honest enough to say some mildly threatening stuff in the book while acting like we could friends. God complex, too arrogant to lie
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The Witness is in control of the Pyramid Fleet. Unveiling was given to us through a Pyramid Ship artefact. We have no reason to trust that the author of the Unveiling is in fact this entity known as the Winnower.
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You think the Winnower can’t reach out to us through a pyramid? The originator of Darkness can’t use it? What was the point of the book then? Because that’s not how the Voice in the Darkness, the Witness, was trying to influence other Guardians. Totally different method and style. Well Unveiling is the only lore that covers the Winnower. And it was done before the introduction of the Witness, which also invovled a retcon of BoS lore. So it’s very easy to see why it’s trustworthy. It’s a mechanism to retcon elements of the story.
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Because there is nothing to stop Unveiling itself being retconned. Outside of that book, we have no mention of this Winnower. Either they’re purely fictitious, actually exist or are one and the same with the Witness. Because despite the Witness not being a finalised entity yet, our Doppelgänger is quite obviously its means of speaking to us. Same manner of speaking, similar body language. The only thing that has kept this entity and the Winnower separate is plural versus singular pronouns. Something we’ve only seen in the Deep when Oryx called it into an Ogre.
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Unveiling was the retcon. It’s been in the works since base D2. That’s what makes it ironclad. Unveiling wasn’t made just to introduce the Winnower either. It was the origin story for the cosmos, the Gardner, the Vex, the Worm Gods and the Ahamkara. It’s the single biggest lore revelation book in the game and it dropped right as the major revelations began. The Witness is a finalized character. It’s been the Darkness big bad since the beginning. The OG storyline didn’t have a Winnower. The Darkness was just corrupted Light, the big bad was just a Lightbearer gone off the rails. That would of been the Witness. It’s not just the we and I usage. The Winnower has a casual friendliness in its pattern and a wide vocabulary, the doppelgänger is short with its words, to the point and ambiguous. This speech pattern is seen in the BoS with Oryx when it communed with the Darkness. If the Witness was meant to be that entity, why did they switch patterns for it? And make a whole new character that uses it? All just to trick us for no purpose? We know how the Witness was reaching out to Guardians to corrupt them. The Voice in the Darkness. So you think it was having a pleasant conversation with a polite request to reconsider allegiances and philosophies? That’s what drove them to go Dark? No, we’ve seen that the corrupting influence is anything but pleasant or that the victim is simply given a choice without and influence. It’s called corruption for a reason. So if it was a ploy by the Witness, what was the point? Does it distract the Guardian? No. The Vanguard? No. Anyone? No. See what I mean? It’s a deception with no meaning or influence. Making it 100% pointless. Whereas if if you consider it to be true, the book suddenly have 100% value.
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TheArcLanternHappy Totems….HAPPY TOTEMS!!!! - old
So your saying the traveler isn’t the gardener, And the gardener gave Bray the ability to make alkahest? -
I’m saying that’s a big ole Shell, a vessel. What god is made of stoneish material and metal in the shape of a hollow orb? Not the Gardner, the Winnower. Two faces.
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TheArcLanternHappy Totems….HAPPY TOTEMS!!!! - old
So who appeared to Clovis as a wolf in a dream then? -
The female wolf with a star for an eye? The Gardner, you can tell from what it says. The wolf form is a clue to the D1 grimiore cards Dreams of Alpha Lupi.
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TheArcLanternHappy Totems….HAPPY TOTEMS!!!! - old
Ahhh ok