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8/31/2022 2:01:23 AM
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Slightly incorrect. The Fallen were uplifted but not chosen. Humanity was chosen, chosen means to get considered worthy of the power of the Light. So what would be different, let’s dive in! Given how they arrived with their equipment in good order and fully stocked? We would of had access to their power supplies and manufacturing very early on. Which means we would of saved at least…two centuries or more getting that tech back on both small and large scale production. That’s wide scale home, food and equipment production in a few years, not centuries. So that growth becomes exponential as more people enables more production. The lack of raiding on settlements means more of humanity would of remained spread out and pop growth would of been much higher. Less concentration of population, we’d of seen the rise of major settlements in all the fertile lands. Also vehicles and ships would of been repaired much sooner, allowing for the wide spread growth and trade. Long as their was mutual cooperation between locales. Honestly, Fallout 4 and it’s settlement concept is a great way to to visualize it. Each place trying to be self sustainable and making available whatever excess or speciality they possess. Working together, salvaging would of went by faster and with greater dividends. As less fighting means less supply usage, less settlement damage and less attrition of critical components. Also quicker means less degrading and loss of salvage. And this good behavior may have assuaged Rasputins misgivings about the Guardians and avoided the whole slaughter of the Iron Lords. Felwinter may have just avoided trying for SIVA, and avoid the real trouble of disturbing the Warmind, as it wouldn’t be needed so badly. So no provoking beyond Felwinter being a naughty boy. It could of waited for proper contact to be made and trust established on the AIs terms. Felwinter alive would of also been a nice boon to the City. Also with the Fallens knowledge of the Hive, we wouldn’t of been as surprised by them. Possibly preventing the Great Disaster, which really hurt the City. Can’t say the raid on Crota would of went better. Sure some of the stronger Guardians may have been around to form the team but…first team into a throneworld? Pretty sure they were destined to get screwed. All that said…would we truly have been better off going that route? Let’s look at the cost of that benevolence. Without Eris going Dark, without a need to take the risk of using our enemies power and learning their secrets? Would we have survived Oryx? Would we have known enough to fight Rhulk, Calus, Savathun and the Witness? Would we have been desperate enough to pick up Stasis? Without it, Eramis would of killed us when she froze our Ghost. The answer? We would of never touched the Darkness and would of shunned anyone who did. Because why bother with when the Light side is doing so well? Our success would of blinded us to the necessity of picking up the tools we needed to succeed long term. So you see…events unfolded exactly as they needed to for anyone to get into a position to be able to defeat the bad guys. On the overall arch of the storyline, it’s well done. Bad events aren’t wasted and aren’t unnecessary, all the suffering means something because it was needed to find the solution. A great concept and narrative frame. Joseph Staten is a great writer.
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  • Also saint would still be alive in this timeline.

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  • Unlikely. Osiris still would of faced exile for his ideas. Saint would of still went after him.

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  • If we were friends Eramis wouldn't be damaged from centuries seeing her friends slaughtered by machine spawn , she wouldn't have felt the obsession for power that drove her to Stasis, her And Arthrys would have a home on Earth , everything on Europa would have never happened , well everything involving the Eliksni, I could still see Ana's curiosity about her family leading her there

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  • Hard to say every Fallen would be on good terms, ya know? Resentment from the Traveler still rebuking them after centuries of working with Humanity, Losses from fighting against the Darkness? Especially the times when we get kicked, like Red War. Hard times can fray alliances. It may not be Eramis but some other Fallen would of went dark. Just like Warlords, there are always bad apples, only a question of which one breaks bad.

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  • But the theory is that ALL of them chose peace.

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  • Edited by Shockwave 989: 8/31/2022 9:54:12 AM
    The First Crota Fireteam might never have been formed without the Great Disaster. The only one who knew how to enter Crota’s Throne was Toland, who only found Guardians desperate enough for vengeance that they’d trust him in the wake of all those who died at his sword. Especially when he didn’t give a -blam!- about anything except getting to the Deathsinger. So without the death of Crota, how would things have gone? The Hive would’ve launched a full-scale offensive on Earth through seeders, but without the knowledge we gained later that may have been game over. Especially if Crota used the very same tactics his father favoured.

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  • I think the fireteam would of formed. But instead of a team motivated by fear and revenge, it would of been a team motivated by confidence. Best case would of seen Crota beaten on the surface. Which case, we lose Eris insight and doom our future Worst case, Crota spanks us but we spank him. Mutual withdrawal, fire team forms up with some grim determination. Depending on whose left is what determines if Eris goes. Again, no Eris makes us boned.

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  • Edited by Shockwave 989: 9/2/2022 2:53:36 PM
    I don’t think Eris would’ve been involved at all. Without the motivation of vengeance she is merely a Hidden agent under the command of Ikora Rey. And without the desperation of being denied support and the incessant need for vengeance, they would never have sought Toland out. If a Fireteam did delve into the Hive fortress none of them would’ve emerged alive. And that really doesn’t inspire confidence in a second assault. Best guess, again, is that Crota would’ve faced down the Guardians during his assault on Earth. Because remember, no Toland means that they have no knowledge of Hive Ascendancy, Throne Worlds or the need to strike these powerful entities where they live.

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  • That’s what I mean. Without Eris getting involved, the future becomes suspect. Not having Toland would be less of an issue. If the initial battle on the moon hadn’t gone as badly, they wouldn’t of abandoned it. They would of pushed on and tried to wipe out the Hive. They wouldn’t just let them regroup for another assault after a victory or even a stalemate. Following into their tunnels, we would of found the gates and sorted it out from there. Eris is more key, not just her knowledge but her ability to use the Darkness is more important. She’s teleported us with it on several occasions out of bad situations.

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  • Teleportation techniques she learned initially from Toland. The only reason Eris could guide us to victory against Crota was because Toland had advised the entire fireteam on what they were getting into before they delved into the Hellmouth. All of the old Dark Below cards are chock-full of these guidances.

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  • And? Did you not read my first post talking about the consequences of an alternate line of events depriving us of knowledge and capabilities needed to progress? I’m just entertaining possibilities and their logical courses. The Guardians find the gate and can’t open it. So you’re thinking no one would ask Toland? The only Darkness expert of the time? That everyone knows about? Kinda goes without saying. 🤷

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  • Keep in mind that no body trusted Toland. Hell, the First Crota Fireteam didn’t even fully trust Toland. Keep in mind we’re talking about an Exile considered by all accounts at the time to be completely insane. The only reason why they even considered him is because they were denied any support by the Vanguard and the Consensus.

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  • And when they hit a brick wall figuring it out, they won’t go to him cause he’s scary. Mkay

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  • Edited by Shockwave 989: 9/3/2022 7:27:30 PM
    There’s a big difference between the Consensus authorising reaching out to Toland and five Guardians with no official support having nowhere else to go contacting. He was exiled for a reason. ESPECIALLY with how suspicious Toland was acting, because again, he didn’t really care for any of them at the time. They were only his ticket into Crota’s Throne World.

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  • The Consensus governs the City, outside of exiling people they can’t prevent Guardians from going to Toland. Guardians are not under the command of anyone. So there is nothing to stop Guardians wanting to get in from going to Toland. Either they admit they need his help or Crota returns after his brood pays the price to bring him back and forces their hand. The former may or may not happen, sure. The latter? Another big battle with Crota and they would be hounding for his help, realizing they aren’t actually killing him off and he’ll just keep coming back. Just a matter of time.

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  • Guardians aren…. But they ARE, that’s a major point behind the Battle of the Burning Lake and the Great Disaster in the first place. In a hypothetical scenario where the Consensus never authorising the massive assault to retake the Moon, there is no need to go to Toland. This predates Stasis, this predates wielding Thorn, this predates THE Guardian going on a solo mission to avenge Cayde-6. Those who dabbled with the Darkness were a threat in the eyes of the Consensus and not to be trusted by the general Guardian population. Without the desperate need for revenge the First Crota Fireteam would never have felt the need to seek Toland out. Hell, without the Great Disaster they wouldn’t even know who Crota was. Nor would they even suspect that the Hive were as entrenched on the Moon as they turned out to be.

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  • Edited by GajeSteel: 8/31/2022 2:53:07 AM
    Wow...I could not have gotten a better answer than this. The thing I love about "What If's" is getting to explore all the possibilities and outcomes you will get just by changing one step of the path, you have done that and more.

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  • Anytime Guardian!

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