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Edited by Dragoon4290: 9/28/2016 3:08:02 PM
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This video sh[i]i[/i]ts all over that garbage, propoganda piece that Triple Wreck put out, and really shows the limits of HCs. Watch it and you'll see that [i][b]range[/b][/i] is the issue, not bloom. HCs can use a slight a range increase before the cone widens, but removal of bloom is a recipe for disaster.
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  • Am I missing something here? I've watched the video you posted but doesn't it support what everyone including TW have been saying? First part he states he had to move 8 Mtrs inside intended range before he was confident of hitting his shots then in the second part he says he agrees rng bullets are a thing? Forgive me if I've missed something.

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  • [quote]Am I missing something here? I've watched the video you posted but doesn't it support what everyone including TW have been saying? First part he states he had to move 8 Mtrs inside intended range before he was confident of hitting his shots then in the second part he says he agrees rng bullets are a thing? Forgive me if I've missed something.[/quote] No one is saying that "ghost bullets" don't exist. TW made little to no effort to explain [i]why [/i]he was missing shots. He basically just says "hurr dur, luk at me miss, this sux. Git rid ov it". On top of that, he stood at one, unspecified distance - he makes no effort to show if the effect differs at varying ranges, and/or if there is a min/max of the effect. The min/max is where the 8m comes into play that you mentioned. KK had to move in 8m from maximum effective range before his shots were near 100% accuracy for both guns he used. He didn't going into much detail about the max spread, but I feel it wasn't necessary for the viewer to understand what is happening when you experience a "ghost bullet". This means, to me anyways, that if the range were extended, the effect would be minimalized and feel more like it does on scouts and Pulses. [spoiler]FWIW, other games have this mechanic as well. Overwatch is a good example.[/spoiler]

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  • That's cool, my misunderstanding. I agree the video you posted is a much better more in depth examination though ultimately both highlight the same issue.

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  • That guy is also a -blam!-ing beast and shouldn't be used for comparison

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  • Bloom and ghost bullets need to be removed. There is no reason for bloom to be in this game when it has nothing to do with skill in a game like Destiny. They got rid of it in Halo Reach, they should do the same with Destiny. RNG should never determine who wins a gun fight, and bloom does just that. Also, I'm pretty sure that Triplewreck made it clear that he was addressing range, [b]not[/b] bloom. That's why he paced his shots considerably, that way he could show that the inaccuracy of handcannons on the first shot was completely unrelated to bloom.

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  • It isn't bloom that I am decrying in this post. Watch the linked video in the original post. Perfectly lined up single shots by a non-mobile shooter on a non-mobile target who love geographically close to one another, still have a chance to miss. There is an RNG roll of accuracy on each single shot, independent of the bloom effect.

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  • Did you watch the video I linked? It shows how the cone effect works amd what the [i]actual [/i]range is on HCs. Triple Wreck stood outside this intended range, which is he missed so many, and why I state that they need a slight range buff. It is my contention that TW knew what the intended range was and [i]chose[/i] to stay outside of it (and not mention it) to add to the illusion that they issue is more prevalent than it is. Because the video I linked shows that when in intended range, shots rarely miss.

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  • Thorn hits 79 to the head with Accurized Ballistics, so your claim of knowing where he is in regards to range is speculation at best. With everyone losing their minds over shotguns are we really going to argue against making primary weapons more consistent? We're sitting at .9ish second TTK on the meta weapon archetypes, they do not kill fast enough and the accuracy cone on the most competitive primaries in the game further discourages guardians from engaging with one.

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  • Edited by Dragoon4290: 9/28/2016 8:32:24 PM
    [quote]Thorn hits 79 to the head with Accurized Ballistics, so your claim of knowing where he is in regards to range is speculation at best.[/quote] You could be right, I could be right, but we don't for sure because he makes no attempt to show the viewer the [i]full[/i] extent of the cone mechanic. And that's why I linked the other video in my original post. It actually explains and [i]shows[/i] that shots fired within the intended range rarely misses [quote]With everyone losing their minds over shotguns are we really going to argue against making primary weapons more consistent? We're sitting at .9ish second TTK on the meta weapon archetypes, they do not kill fast enough and the accuracy cone on the most competitive primaries in the game further discourages guardians from engaging with one.[/quote] I'm all for buffing primary weapons, and even adjusting the cone on HCs. My goal is that everyone understands what the mechanic actually entails, and we search for a reasonable solution that works for everyone - the shooter, the target, and the game as a whole - and to avoid a knee jerk weapon tuning that yields yet another HC meta.

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  • Edited by jeezus87: 9/29/2016 1:41:52 PM
    No, I most definitely am correct, this is common knowledge. Accurized Ballistics does nothing to increase impact so head shots hit for 79 as long as you are within intended range. If you're going to try to argue that an accuracy cone should come into play within intended range on the FIRST SHOT we are clearly not going to find common ground here. We are already in a hand cannon meta, FYI, because of the burst dps and ability to weave in and out of cover breaking line of sight and still maintaining a fast TTK.

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  • [quote]No, I most definitely am correct, this is common knowledge. Accurized Ballistics does nothing to increase impact so head shots hit for 79 as long as you are within intended range.[/quote] Are you sure? Everywhere I look says the same thing: ACCURIZED BALLISTICS - More range and [b][i]impact[/i][/b]. Increased recoil. +5% Damage +10 Range -10 Stability According to this then, he's outside standard range, and in extended range because of the perk. The point is, we don't really know what's going on with the mechanic, especially where perks come in. TW made no attempt to explain any of it, at all - except "her durr, look at me miss from an unspecified range" [quote]If you're going to try to argue that an accuracy cone should come into play within intended range on the FIRST SHOT we are clearly not going to find common ground here.[/quote] I'm all for a healthy debate if it means finding that common ground that works for everybody. [quote]We are already in a hand cannon meta, FYI, because of the burst dps and ability to weave in and out of cover breaking line of sight and still maintaining a fast TTK.[/quote] I still have nightmares from Y1 being crossmapped by them. That was rough back then...lol

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  • Let me rephrase what I said. Accurized is the baseline for impact, the other two ballistics offer significant increases to impact. Take your year 1 Thorn into a private match, stand within intended range, and headshot a buddy. You will hit for 79. The other ballistics offer 82/84 per headshot but take serious hits to range and stability.

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