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Destiny 2

Discuta tudo sobre Destiny 2.
Editado por Romulus: 2/29/2020 10:15:26 PM
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Items in games shouldn’t decay faster than reality

Weapons’ maximum level growth should expire

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Weapons’ maximum level growth shouldn’t expire

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The talented folks who create Destiny 2, like those who create many games, are aware of an uncomfortable truth about game design: that in order to be compelling and remain economically viable as a live service, a game needs to grow and change like a living real-world society or environment. Fun-killing imbalances have to be found and corrected, new content has to be added, and some old content may even have to be removed. Characters may even need to die in order for other characters’ lives to be credibly in jeopardy - and therefore part of an exciting narrative with meaningful conflict in it. Even Cayde’s death served a purpose in making the stakes of the Tangled Shore storyline and the battle for the Dreaming City more compelling, as the escalating hunt for those ultimately responsible for his murder (Savathun’s the puppetmaster, Uldren was mostly just mentally ill, poor guy!) became more meaningful. After saying all that, it may seem odd (even callous towards Cayde!) to say that I don’t think that limiting the use of old weapons in endgame content would make the game more fun, engaging, and successful, overall and in the long run. Stay with me, though, if you’re interested. I want to point out that just because old things fading away or being destroyed is often a necessary part of change and creation, that does not mean there are no wrong choices to be made about what fades. To be engaged in something for a long time, most forward-thinking people need to have a certain sense of continuity, a certain level of confidence that what they invest in a hobby will last for a certain amount of time. That amount of time doesn’t have to be indefinitely long - even the people who love D2 the most don’t believe they’ll be playing this game throughout their entire lives; maybe after ten years or so, they’ll just replay an offline version of it from time to time, the way one does with beloved classic games. When I think ahead that many years into the future, though - beyond fifteen months - it seems absurd and sad that the use of older, favourite weapons would be restricted in endgame activities, the most engaging, lively part of an action MMORPG. In an MMORPG where weapons are essentially just a set of statistics with skins, this would not be an issue, but thanks to Bungie’s amazing artists and game designers, Destiny 2’s weapons are far more than that. My trusty Right Side of Wrong is more than that, with its familiar hollow rattling noise and the idiosyncratic kick that seems to fit right into my virtual hand with each trigger pull, different from even other guns of the exact same name. For many dedicated players, whether they play PvE or PvP or both in equal measure, being forced to put down old favourites when they go into endgame activities like new Raids or Trials of Osiris is going to dramatically decrease their enthusiasm for the game. It’s going to make them feel like their effort is even more futile in this game than it is in real life, which is the opposite of what games should be. In real life, if I acquired a nice firearm or bow to do range shooting or hunt deer, it could even outlast my own natural lifespan with proper care, allowing me to grow familiar with it and get fun and use out of it, even if I owned other weapons for other purposes. Why can’t my Right Side of Wrong at least last the lifespan of Destiny 2? Well... I understand that more weapons means a more difficult time balancing the game, and that it’s difficult to keep attracting new players and growing the game if the sandbox stagnates. However, as far as I can see, D2’s fundamental design dictates that the balance is never going to be perfect, and returning to the way D1 worked (for a certain period) does nothing but swap back to an older, more transitory form of this same set of problems, rather than actually fixing them. If there’s a compelling reason why the cost-benefit analysis on this works out differently than I think it does, though, I’d really like to understand it. Thoughts?

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  • Editado por G4LL0WGL455: 3/3/2020 5:06:37 AM
    Reality check. Is the AK 47 retired? Are its variants both old and new retired? Is it and its variants still in use world wide? Answers: No. No. Yes.

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  • I made a post about this [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/255353746]here [/url]if you want to read the whole thing, but basically my criticism is that the current RNG of the game is too harsh to put a time limit on acquiring god rolls. If there is not a fundamental rework of loot in some way to accommodate the new system of rotating gear, unlucky people will not be able to get the weapons they want before they just become obsolete.

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  • [quote][url=https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12447/7_bungie-weekly-update---12042014]They've been lying for a lot longer than six months.[/url] [i]"In the months to come, your quest to become more powerful will have more avenues that lead to satisfaction. [b][u]The last thing we wanted was for you to look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete[/u][/b]. Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. [b][u]Your feedback is clear: The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected.[/u][/b]"[/i] So much for promises.[/quote] Bungie keeps going back and forth with no clear direction and are full of lies. I’m done playing their game.

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  • Them making expiration dates on weapons is a bad idea, they're going to piss people off doing one of the following 3 things: 1. Make "OP" perks for the new weapons to make it seem grindable and then have to nerf it later (due to their concerns with "Power Creep") 2. Make it underwhelming in fear of breaking "Balance" 3. Same perks different or reskinned weapons, basically same weapons but regrind it for higher light to make the player feel "Rewarded". I believe those 3 reasons are why this is a bad idea, but it's just my opinion.

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  • Editado por n@zz1138: 3/1/2020 1:28:35 AM
    They should expire. I was against it in D1 initially I must admit. Leaving my Vision of Confluence and Mythoclast behind, and my Gjallarhorn! seemed seismic at the time. But I found new guns to love, and new grinds to chase and it did inject more life and playability for me. So many good guns came after that. Chasing Grasp of Malok and Hawksaw rolls and discovering I actually liked pulse rifles now. And I could always use my forgotton guns in the Crucible where light level didn't matter if I really wanted to fire them. I did do that, but not as often as I thought I would. I suppose, judging by most comments here and other places that I'm a very small minority. I'm all for blowing up the vault again and resetting everything back to zero for a D3. I was more than happy with my first guns, but when I consider not retiring [i]any[/i] guns ever, would I still be running around the Destiny 2 sandbox with my original Mythoclast as as part of my main loadout right now? I honestly don't know. But I imagine the journey to where I am today would be a lot less varied and a lot less fun. That's the real buzz for me, the part that appeals to my collector trip is everybody getting their tits out over the latest nut-job broken god roll. Threads and Youtube going off on farming tips and competative rolls. And when I think about the Myhtoclast as an example, stupidly OP and hard to obtain...something like that [i]has[/i] to have an expiry date. You could suggest, nerfing (i know it was nerfed) or create a similair weapon to compete, but that cheapens the original and sours the fantasy and takes away from earning it. Not Forgotten, Luna etc, even the notoriously completely busted Erentil all deserve their time in the sun, but nothing that bright can shine forever as they say, so let them pass into legend, and lets get back to the grind.

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    8 Respostas
    • Power creep has to be managed in these games. Or else they die.

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      • Editado por TJ_Dot: 3/1/2020 8:23:33 AM
        If MMOs treat gear like Stat sticks and nothing else, then I don't want Destiny to be the MMO it has been trying to yet not be for the last 5 and a half years

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        • True.... destiny 2 weapons are the " Molder whopper of Gaming " 🤣🤣🤣 d1 weapons are still farm freash

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        • It's good, we'll overcome it. :)

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          • Just let weapons be upgraded from level 1 to max problem solved weapons can grow alongside characters

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            2 Respostas
            • I think they should expire eventually, but I’d extend it by another year or 6 months. But I don’t know the shit the team has to go through when it comes to this stuff, so I don’t know the best approach.

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              3 Respostas
              • Ikr. This space simulation is just not realistic at all. I mean when I go to Venus for my annual summer holiday, me and the Mrs enjoy the sulphuric acid rain and pizza oven like temperatures. What do we get in this game? Pretty flowers and vex robots...

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                • I agree 100%. These guns are not just "stat sticks" They have a unique feel and performance. There is something nice about having "your gun." In D1 for me it was a decently rolled (and rerolled until I got something I liked - remember when that was a thing?) Skorri's Revenge. I loved that gun. I wish I could dust it off for use in D2. It was not particularly OP, but it felt good to use. Being forced to churn through a whole bunch of new guns will decrease my connection to, and investment in, the game. I will no longer have "my gun," just whatever the flavor of the month(s) is. That's not a world I have much interest spending time visiting.

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                  • https://youtu.be/Z-IQHnm99RA

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                  • Editado por DarthAtrocitas: 2/29/2020 11:30:02 PM
                    I 100% agree with your post. I also feel that it’s not mutually exclusive. You can have the current weapon system and still create new, exciting weapons. I understand the need for change. Who knows what the retirement system will reveal, but I do know that if my weapons like Recluse and or Mountaintop are gone, I won’t be playing. I earned it. Took me longer than most. And that means I didn’t get as much time with them. One thing that I noticed with the Dark Below? Once VoG gear became obsolete, players started walking away. I stuck with it. But, it wasn’t as fun. Or as exciting. I love the diversity they have right now. Choose different builds and explore. I haven’t finished everything in the game either. I take breaks from Destiny. But the current model allows me to come back and experience the weapon grind when I have time. I’m not the only one who has to take breaks from Destiny. So, what’s the alternative? Retire weapons and previous seasons? If not? Clear it up. Make a statement Bungie! The forums are getting salty! :)

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