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originally posted in: Does PVP feel off to anyone?
7/12/2022 4:46:51 AM
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When was the last time PvP felt “on” to anyone? IMO, The best year for PvP was 2018 (Forsaken/Black Armoury/Drifter/Opulence) With SBMM, weapons chase (Luna/Not Forgotten, Mountain Top, Redrix etc) No crossplay… More maps are desperately needed for a start!
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  • Forsaken’s PvP was definitely off too.

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  • I can’t remember which meta I’ve liked. 600rpm auto meta was refreshing. But besides that I don’t know. I remember not hating double primary. It may not have been the fastest meta in terms of TTK, but it felt the most balanced.

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  • Edited by Demon_XXVII: 7/12/2022 5:25:39 PM
    600 AR were fun (especially for the long term catalyst owning HardLight 😄) Gnawing Hunger chase & that experimental AR (name escapes me) Edit: Galliard XN42

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  • Oh I know! And nobody was at a huge disadvantage using a handcannon. They just weren’t at a huge advantage for using it any more. ARs being more forgiving, even if they have a smaller accuracy cone and less aim assist. It was fun while it lasted. I’ve often been a fan of Bungie shifting the meta every season or so. 140 HCs can stay good, but bring up other weapon types to match and kind of rotate them around. Some people love certain weapon archetypes, but some are just not all that viable. Almost punishing you try and use while so many other players are on meta.

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  • Edited by Demon_XXVII: 7/12/2022 4:56:08 PM
    I’m too aggressive for HC (I used to be a OG Thorn/Kneepad SG carrying, shoulder charging Titan in early D1 Y1) Now, after injuries, & an irregular thumb twitch (just enough to screw my aim), it’s more like two crits & a ceiling shot 😄 (then death) as I struggle to keep the track of heads (Hunter for the movement/reload, it’s now ingrained, but there’s no stompees/wormhusk/classy restoration crutch) So, I’ll use an Auto (Kinetic) or a great Pulse (Bygones/Messenger, RIP Inaugural/Marine 🪦) - sometimes Hard Light/Summoner for holding the trigger I miss the Last Breath (can’t get a good one) Maybe an equaliser (Jotunn/Godly Main Ingredient/Likely/Snorri) & a Sword/Rocket Launcher

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  • That was the most broken meta in the game lmao

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  • It was fun to play. I'd rather be on fire than tolerate this crap since Arrivals.

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  • The Arrival of Witherhoard (doorway/control zone spam) & yet even that was better than the start of Beyond Loot & the disastrous Stasis experience

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  • Didn't mind either of those tbh. Stasis was fun and witherhoard was an easy catalyst quest to grind.

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  • The Witherhoard catalyst steps weren’t the problem It was the “no look” AoE spam shots from 6 player stacks, all creating bottlenecks & kill boxes on those tiny little maps (Anomaly, Twilight Gap, the SK Moon map etc)

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  • Yeah the janky weapons and ability spam are when I enjoy this game the most. It was fine.

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  • It may have been broken, but every class had something that was broken so it kinda balanced out and was fun while doing so.

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  • And yet, it was the best fun No stupid health spam grenades, Solar madness, stasis didn’t exist, no Sunsetting, no absolute destruction of the PvP maps, and Crucible had skill based and performance based matchmaking for Glory modes (with reason to play)

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  • The biggest downside to the Y2 metas was pinnacles. Yes we all loved them, but there was no denying the disadvantages they brought about. So much so account recoveries to essentials “buy” them were rampant. Sure those not able to get them on their own weren’t as lethal as those that could earn them. But that’s part of my point. A case of the “rich get richer”. The skill gap didn’t widen because of a new mechanic that higher skilled players used to their advantage. It widened because those of really high skill got weapons that were far more lethal than anything they had before, and these weapons came with a high ease of use. And for those that couldn’t get them on their own, compared to other players of the same skill as them, the difference in having those weapons or not was like one person changed the game to easy. I think this time period had some of the highest highs of PvP, but also some of the lowest lows felt in PvP too. Depending on who you were.

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  • Edited by Demon_XXVII: 7/12/2022 4:33:07 PM
    I never saw it as the problem that higher skilled players had to reach tiers & levels in Glory rank, competing against similar players to reach 5500 Glory & win over & over (SBMM) to acquire the Not Forgotten With other similar quests at varying points tiers for Luna, Revoker, Recluse, Adored, Randy’s, even Last Word PvP steps were a struggle for some (acquired it, never really used it in PvP, not a fan of hip fire) Then the Redrix & Mountain Top quests (those calculated trajectory kills were no joke) Survival (Glory had SBMM, and a much bigger variety of maps (oh and no crossplay to wreck things further) We (the players) set out to acquire those guns, we found [b]our[/b] levels/ceiling & we gained/earned the right to use what we put time in for! There were also plenty of PvE weapons that could destroy in Crucible (Bygones/Blast Furnace, fair few SG rolls, Service Revolver etc) As for PvP now, “meta” (still HC/SG) how the better players are using Trials, Raids etc getting [b]Adept[/b]/[b]Timelost[/b] guns and mullering players at the bottom ends of the “matchmaking” system to farm kills/wins There’s far far more people using the advantages of 120 FPS, faster refresh rate, FoV, PC, new gen vs old gen, terrible crossplay system, 3rd party assist peripherals, trials farming etc & more paid/carry/recov options than Bungie can even attempt to nullify (personally think they love the social media/internet attention & exposure) But Year 2 felt like Bungie/Activision paid more attention to Crucible (probably due to Forsaken having [b]everything[/b] thrown at it) Personally, I got my Redrix/Luna/Recluse/others reached 4400 & found my ceiling for Not Forgotten Never wanted the Revoker/Adored I can’t snipe in this game for schitt! (C6-8 nerve damage, multiple injuries, medical coma, long term neuron/pathway/motor control/dexterity issues - VBIED Afghanistan, 2015) I’m pretty lucky that I can still game (took a lot of physical/muscle memory rehab to rebuild my pathways) I use a basic out the box Sony DS4 controller, no attachments, never let a single other person use my account etc I still had fun in D2 Crucible Now, I rarely step into PvP (it’s just a mess in Control, & especially IB this season) If I play, it’s Elimination/Survival

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  • I don’t mean to say many players didn’t work hard to get those weapons. Many people tried and couldn’t. And it would almost be a crime if after such a daunting quest to reach the pinnacle of PvP, the weapons be barely better than something that dropped from a Dreg on the EDZ. But think about the issue. A person who is a master of getting a 3-tap with a 150, earns a weapon that is more stable has less recoil and will now 3-tap at 180rpm. Recluse that after 1 kill could then do crit damage to the body. A sniper that rewards some of the fastest and most accurate snipers in the game the best archetype of sniper rifle with the forgiveness that if they do miss, they get the shot back. A grenade launcher that fires faster and straighter than any other is rewarded to somebody that was already a master with lesser grenade launchers that are far harder to use effectively. And it didn’t really have SBMM. It’s based on whatever rank you’re in. You could see that when your team gets annihilated by a squad with the Unbroken title and LH, and you’re not even Fable rank yet. There’s really bo solution that would make everyone happy. Make pinnacle PvP weapons more PvE weapons, and make the best PvP weapons ties to PvE activities will make PvE centric players mad that they have to play PvP. PvP only/mostly players will also be upset, because maybe they don’t want to grind a raid or GM. Upper end players don’t want real SBMM. And they’d hate it if hard to get PvP weapons were just “meh”, as it would feel unrewarding. If a player was able to earn LH/MT/Recluse pre-nerf, and before XP penalties were taken out of Pre-Fable rank, then you would have a very different experience to those that could not and had to face off against people in quick play who did have them. It may as well have felt like some players spawned with heavy ammo, but you never did.

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  • Edited by Demon_XXVII: 7/12/2022 4:31:17 PM
    I managed to earn the weapons before the nerfs (and getting domed in the head by a Service Revolver was also a wake up call, when trying to get the Luna 😄) and whilst some matches were hugely mismatched, it (2018 Comp) generally felt in a much better place than Trials does recently But yeah, for Crucible, there’s never gonna be a happy medium (ftp, CBMM and crossplay were huge nails in the coffin) Not unless the powers that be at Bungie invest in 128tic servers (dedicated for PvE and PvP) rewrite the code, lessen the trailing hit boxes etc You can hear the uproar already when those whom “win” most of their duels, due to the peer to peer system, suddenly get killed due to actual servers deciding on the hit registration

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