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Not afraid. Just not willing to deal with the immaturity and toxicity. That’s usually a good thing.
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Teaching and communicating with toxic and immature people is what we should be doing. Teaching and communicating with those that are civilized with moral uprightness is the path of least resistance. Thus, they are cowards. Too many idealist, and not enough compassionate people that [b]truly[/b] care about their fellow man.
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Nope. Watch the season finale of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. It covers this. You can’t force people who are committed to behaving in anti-social ways to act cooperatively. Your efforts at kindness and understanding will be seen as weakness, and (like schoolyard bullies) it will just invite even more toxic and aggressive behavior. Just ask the Sandbox Lead who tried to “communicate” around Twighlight Garrison and was subjected to such outrageous behavior he went dark in his personal Twitter account. No. Healthy people don’t try to rescue or rehabilitate ABUSERS, unless they are trained therapists…and some people are too far gone for even that. Healthy [i]walk away.[/i] They take care of themselves, and remove themselves from the situation. In short we abused the [i]privilege [/i] of getting to interact with Bungie staff. So they REVOKED it..and they had every right to do so.
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[quote]Nope. Watch the season finale of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. It covers this. You can’t force people who are committed to behaving in anti-social ways to act cooperatively. Your efforts at kindness and understanding will be seen as weakness, and (like schoolyard bullies) it will just invite even more toxic and aggressive behavior. Just ask the Sandbox Lead who tried to “communicate” around Twighlight Garrison and was subjected to such outrageous behavior he went dark in his personal Twitter account. No. Healthy people don’t try to rescue or rehabilitate ABUSERS, unless they are trained therapists…and some people are too far gone for even that. Healthy [i]walk away.[/i] They take care of themselves, and remove themselves from the situation. In short we abused the [i]privilege [/i] of getting to interact with Bungie staff. So they REVOKED it..and they had every right to do so.[/quote] The man quotes Star Trek new worlds which has very little to do with the original Star Trek, and is making a mockery of Star Trek. Star Trek Discover Is ignoring the Canon and playing loose with all rules -- Yet your gonna state star trek is a metaphorical story? It's a blatant attempt to rewrite canon I don't think your the person who should be saying people are "immature and toxic," when much like Star Trek current writers, Bungie can't write a proper story. And views themselves as the makers of the story. When you write a story or make a business, you are creating something in conjunction with your audiences. You are not in control. Your audience and the writer make the story together. -- The main actor for Star Trek says, "she gets the fans compliant, but the show won't CHANGE for the actors for comfortable with the direction the show is taking," How egotistical, and narrasistic must one be to view the world that way?! Remember tho, "we are listening,', is often stated by people like the actor for Star Trek. -- The Immature and toxic people are those who state lines like 'we are hearing your compliance, but we won't change for we are comfortable with he direction the show has taken." You have APPROPRIATED a Fandom, but won't live up to the Fandom. People have a right to call out such actions. -- Those who defend such example rather than ask for change don't want change, they want control.
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Thank you for **demonstrating** the larger point that I was making.
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These people would make good Sith.
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Not quite....but I understand the point you are making. Every Sith eventually becomes a malignant narcissist under the influence of the Dark Side. That was the point that Yoda was making in teaching Luke about the difference between the two on Dagobah. That the Sith thinks he controls that Dark Side and that it gives him power, when the truth is that (like addiction) it is the Sith who is controlled BY the Darkness, and ultimately becomes its slave. He is given power...but is robbed of his freedom and ability to choose in the process.
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Indeed. Absorbing so much of it lately has slightly warped my viewpoints around making such comparisons. I think I am just getting tired seeing so much wasted energy on being angry at things people just don't like anymore.
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Human condition. It’s easier to demand that everyone and everybody else needs to change so we can be happy and comfortable, than it is to endure the pain and effort to change ourselves. Second Noble Truth.
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Right.
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I’ll try to watch that. I just recently been getting back into movies and shows, so that’d be a good place to start. These people aren’t as bad you’re making them out to be. They’re just uneducated, primarily. Though I understand that “letting them figure it out themselves” has ground; but ignoring completely the people that care and want the game to be better is undeniably cowardice. That may seem like a huge dragon that bungie has to face, but they have to step out of their comfort zone to make progress, even though they might get bit. Things won’t get better being scared of the bite, or even worse, death.
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Edited by Azrael-Symphony: 7/14/2022 6:12:10 PM[quote]I’ll try to watch that. I just recently been getting back into movies and shows, so that’d be a good place to start. These people aren’t as bad you’re making them out to be. They’re just uneducated, primarily. Though I understand that “letting them figure it out themselves” has ground; but ignoring completely the people that care and want the game to be better is undeniably cowardice. That may seem like a huge dragon that bungie has to face, but they have to step out of their comfort zone to make progress, even though they might get bit. Things won’t get better being scared of the bite, or even worse, death.[/quote] Star trek New Worlds dont watch. Doesn't live up to the old trek and brings down [i]alot[/i] of values and morals of the Federation for the sake of fancy graphics, and alot of CGI Lens Flares. Actors talent gets wasted on plot and script that doesn't do much to the values and morals of a society Built apon Honors, Morals/Ethics and Meritocracy. -- It's your average SCI-FI universe that got a Star Trek ,graphics Package to cover up any plot holes.
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I’ll take that into consideration 😎👉
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/13/2022 7:11:10 PMMost of them aren’t. But make no mistake about it. Some of them are malicious. Know exactly what they are doing, and don’t care. Worse still is that these bad actors enjoy influencing the more misguided individuals you were referring to. The result is that you have a irredeemably toxic environment, as long as Bungie isn’t willing to enforce more stringent standards. People don’t change until they feel it in their personal interests to do so, and when there are little if any consequences for toxic behavior? There is little motivation to change it. Sometimes all “turning the other cheek” accomplishes is getting both cheeks slapped. So the sensible thing is to leave those people alone. As there is no benefit to Bungie trying to play untrained therapist to toxic people.
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Edited by vxvxTITANxvxv: 7/13/2022 7:23:45 PMI can agree with most points you’re making. I do believe that you’re putting to much emphasis and criticism towards the community and not enough emphasis or criticism towards bungie though. I’m still not convinced that they aren’t a bunch of cowards because they don’t know how to answer questions. It’s easier to answer questions when you’re in a good honest place, even the tough ones. Them being absent and non-transparent shows their true colors. As we can both agree that the more misbehaved people in this community should get their crap together and try to make their criticisms more productive; bungie should also get their crap together and face their community with confidence and fearlessness.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/14/2022 11:17:06 AMNow. Take the person who just airdropped into this thread, and started attacking and insulting...and that I just muted? THAT is why Bungie doesn't interact with us here. That nonsense is what I get for simply "daring" to speak out against the hive mind around here that everything under the Sun is Bungie's fault, and the prevailing victim narrative. For "daring" to have my own opinions about things. Now multiply that toxicity and personal abuse by HUNDREDS of times...and make it even MORE immature and irrational.... ...and you start to get into the range of what the CMs have to put up with whenever they make even the most perfunctory posts around here. It is not their fault. Dmg04 used to post regularly down in OffTopic. Hanging out down there and having fun with that sub-community, and he's treated with respect, and is a valued member. But up here in the "salt mines" (as the OffTopicans call this shitshow)? Any time he posts ANYTHING people come out of the walls just to level the most lurid and personal abuse at him. Anyone with a healthy sense of self-esteem and self-respect is simply not going to subject themselves to that. As a result we have lost the privilege to interact with people from Bungie in any meaningful way. We abused it....and they (understandably) revoked it. They now go places where there is the possibility of constructive, respectful engagement.
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We’re just repeating ourselves at this point. You’re generally saying to abandon those who aren’t ideal to who you want them to be. And I’m saying to take on the burden to attempt to help all those around, no matter how low of a place they are in. Me typing all this just shows how philosophically inconsistent bungie is with all their charities and virtue signaling, but can’t even help their own community that plays their game. That’s a whole other can of worms though. The real world isn’t full of respectful engagements all the time. You’re bubble wrapping your life if you’re scared to engage in potentially constructive conversation online. May not seem like a learning experience most of the time, but I’ve learned the most from my most uncomfortable altercations; especially those in real life, where I have no anonymity.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/14/2022 2:57:31 PMNo. I'm saying what I'm saying. 1. Bungie doesn't owe us the ability to personally interact with them. We aren't paying for that level of service and they NEVER agreed to it. It was a COURTESY that they extended to us. 2. This environment is part of the JOB of Bungie's CMs. They have a right to work in an environment that isn't toxic, damaging to their mental health, and (in some cases) a threat to their safety. They have a right to do WHATEVER they need to do in order to create a healthy work environment for themselves. ...and if that means putting up a wall between themselves and the outrageous behavior that goes on here? So be it. It is their RIGHT to do so. 3. The only "inconsistency" here is yours. It is very easy to say what other people need to be doing when you have no skin in the game, and don't have to live with the consequences of doing so. In short, you are engaging in motivated reasoning. IOW, you starting with the DESIRED (self-interested) outcome...then trying to argue whatever you think will be persuasive and justify that desired result. While selectively blinding yourself to the consequences that it will have on other people. IOW, you are arguing that Bungie is somehow "wrong" for not forcing their employees to endure DAILY harrassment and abuse from the toxic members of this community, just so that a small number of people can have their questions answered personally. No. That is not a morally defensible position in my eyes. That's exploitative, to be honest. [quote]The real world isn’t full of respectful engagements all the time. [/quote] LOL. Trust me, I live and work everyday in an environment that is FULL of disrespectful interactions. The reason why I've been able to continue in it without burning out or sustaining damage to my mental health is that I am very good at setting boundaries with toxic people. Just because someone feels ENTITLED to something, doesn't create an obligation on MY part to provide it....or put UP with their behavior in their efforts to get it. IOW, "NO"---either in the form of speech, or in the non-verbal form of ignoring an unreasonable request---is a complete sentence. Anything that comes out of my mouth AFTER that? It's a courtesy. ...and if people continue to behave badly? I will WITHDRAW that courtesy, and simply get up and walk out on/away from a toxic person. In my younger days, I'd even hang up on people who thought that yelling and screaming at me was an acceptable way to behave. Bottomline? Actions have consequences...and when you behave badly as a group the world will enforce negative GROUP consequences. Period.
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You really need try to be more concise, because that’s a lot for anyone to take in; it’s also considerate to do that. Especially on a video game forum. 😂 All I’ll say is, bungie is full of [b]COWARDS.[/b] You have strayed from the original point and still haven’t convinced me otherwise. You came to me. Period. Exclamation point! 😏
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/14/2022 3:09:20 PMI am being concise. Some topics cannot be addressed in 288 characters or less. [quote]All I’ll say is, bungie is full of COWARDS.[/quote] ..and I'm saying that you're wrong, and that (whether you realize it or not) you are looking to exploit them. [quote]You have strayed from the original point and still haven’t convinced me otherwise. You came to me.[/quote] Not suprised. I generally find it a waste of time to argue reason and principle with those who are arguing from emotion and self-interest. But there are times when it's helpful to others witnessing the interaction to engage anyway. In short. [i]You are coming from a place of entitlement...and feeling that what you want is so important that it justifies whatever anyone else has to endure in order to give it to you. [/i] ...and once you go down that path...My Ends Justify My Means....a smorgasbord of evils show up on the table. Because now you can justify almost anything. "Rationalizations are the smoke that billows up from emotional fires. You don't treat rationalizations like reasoned, principled arguments any more than you would put out a fire by standing around and waving at the smoke. You put out a fire by putting out the fire. But if that is not enough, and the fires keep coming back? Then you put out the arsonist." ---Drew Westren [i] "The Political Brain". [/i]
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Edited by vxvxTITANxvxv: 7/14/2022 3:15:15 PMThat’s a little better. Glad you took my advice. You don’t need to tell someone your life story in a response. It shows respect for the person you’re talking with and makes it easier for them to respond when you’re more concise. You’re main issue, you coming at me, is that you’re trying to say I’m wrong, like you’re trying to win. Conversation isn’t win or lose; it’s about progress. We both know, and you’ve extensively repeated it, that their are people that are to hard work with. The fact that bungie is afraid to interact, though we both know they are not obligated, makes them big fat COWARDS. Undeniably, of course.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/14/2022 3:27:23 PM[quote]You don’t need to tell someone your life story in a response. It shows respect for the person you’re talking with and makes it easier for them to respond when you’re more concise.[/quote] Just keeps digging that hole deeper....... [quote]You’re main issue, you coming at me, is that you’re trying to say I’m wrong,[/quote] [b]Yes you are.[/b] Which is why Bungie will not give you what you are demanding. No matter how intensely you try to shame and insult them into complying They've set a boundary with us, and they are showing no signs of budging....nor should they. [quote]The fact that bungie is afraid to interact, though we both know they are not obligated, makes them big fat COWARDS. Undeniably, of course.[/quote] Quite deniably actually. When I walk away from someone who is toxic, I don't do it out of fear. I do it out of ANNOYANCE. I've had my fill of their behavior, and I'm simply not going to deal with it anymore. I've realized that there is nothing to be gained by continuing to interact with such a person. So I simply **don't**. I walk away, and I put distance between myself and their bad behavior. Its called "self-care". ...and its a sign of mental health, and maturity. I can't control what they choose to do....but I can control what I'm willing to put up with or expose myself to.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/13/2022 7:44:31 PMNo. I’m putting the blame right where it belongs. We are all responsible for our own actions and behavior. People aren’t acting like this because Bungie isn’t transparent enough. They are behaving this way because they enjoy it, and others feel they can get away with. Bungie’s job is to make games. Not fix broken people. Bungie doesn’t owe us direct interaction with them. That was a privilege we were offered, and people abused it…and them…to the point it was revoked.
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Cayde-7I'm Cayde-7 - old
OK their are some people out there which are disgraceful. Sending death threats. They're immature, toxic people and shouldn't be on the Internet. Bungie shouldn't punish everyone because of a few. They're not perfect themselves. They seem to be sensitive to productive critism. -
No, they aren't. Bungie, frankly, has put up with bad behavior from us much longer that other developers would have. Its not that they don't interact with THEIR community (Destiny), they do not interact with THIS "community" (Bungie Forum). Because we've shown time and agains that there is simply no possibility of constructive engagement with us...and the few of us who are capable of it with them simply aren't worth the effort. Not their fault. Ours.