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2/20/2021 10:37:24 PM
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So we don't want SBMM in trials but Carries are fine?

I made a post a while ago about having some kind of matchmaking for trials and a bunch of people complained that I was trying to make trials too easy. It's not that I want it to be too easy I just want the matchmaking to make sense. For someone like me who hasn't gone flawless yet I'm really annoyed by the fact the community doesn't want SBMM for the only real competitive mode but it's fine for me to spend money to a third party company for carry services. This isn't a "I want easy trials wins." I'm willing to try hard and sweat to get my wins. I'm just tired of the fact I'll just start a card and be matched against people with 1.4/kd and 200x flawless runs 4x this week. I know what people are going to say "It's based on your streak" To that I say I've been on a 4 loss streak and gone up against people on a 12+ win streak. So that's not the case. Trials has what Bungie likes to call "Connection based" matchmaking. I put it in quotes because even if they say it's connection based you'll still get matched against mr. Red Bar Ninja who just teleports constantly and can't be hit. So not really connection based. It's really based on whoever is in queue at the same time as you. For players like me who are about average or a little above it's frustrating to be matched against people who already have adept weapons for the week with perfect rolls. Alternatively though it's fine to spend 50$ (assumed price I'm not paying someone else to play my game for me) just to have someone do this for me or for someone to carry me. These players not only get rewarded by the game but even by the community because they now have a flawless on their record which makes it more likely that they'll get into good groups when they play again. In my mind this is ridiculous. You all don't want Skill based because it would make it "too easy" yet that's exactly the opposite of what it would do. You'd be matched against people of similar skill level and the better you do the more progressively challenging the enemy team will be. This makes sense because difficulty is then linear. Guess what else SBMM would do for trials? You know those hackers everyone hates because they're so prominent in trials? They're now getting matched against each other more often than normal players because of their "performance" Thus less likely to get matched against those. Also SBMM wouldn't eliminate the challenge if anything it will be more difficult because instead of getting matched against super easy opponents you'll be matched at your skill level. Some people are gonna be like "Well what if I want to play with a friend who's not as good in trials?" This is where averaging comes in. Your score and your friends scores will be added then divided to put you in a lobby that averages out to a comparable team skill level. (Sorry for the color by numbers explanation of sbmm but apparently people think this is just a bad thing in general though it's actually a logical matchmaking system.) The reason SBMM was removed in the first place in my opinion is ridiculous the fact that the content creators didn't like that they had to try hard every game. As a player I'd rather play with people who are at my skill level because that makes me a better player not just stomp every game. The games I enjoy the most are the games that are extremely close a few points made the difference. Iron banner is the perfect example of this problem. Almost every match of Iron Banner I've been in is mostly one sided. Doesn't all that sound better than forcing the lower tier players to pay people to play for them? Doesn't it sound better that matches will almost always be close in trials? Finally doesn't it sound better that you'll be matched against less hackers? Upvote this post let Bungie know that even if SBMM isn't in every other Crucible activity we want it in Trials.

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  • Can't complain about carries when bungie requires them for the seal. Recoveries on the other hand are definitely a problem.

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    • Wouldn't sbmm make recoveries even easier? Just log onto an account with bad stats and you end up playing against only bad players for easy wins.

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      • To me carries aren’t cheating but paying a stranger to complete part of a computer game is just sad and more of a problem with society than anything. Computer games are meant to be our time off, a reward for working hard or whatever. To pay someone to play them for you like some people do with recoveries and carries is just so far backwards it’s unbelievable. At the end of the day it’s like paying someone to take your dinner break for you or go on holiday in your place.

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        • When will people learn that if there's cheaters the only winning move is not to play. $ and player numbers are the only metrics that matter

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        • No. Sbmm and trials do not mix. You call yourself an average player but are also upset you cant go flawless? Flawless is absolutely NOT intended to be reached by average players...bungie themselves have stated this in the past. Flawless is for the top - the mode is working as intended and as it always has been intended since its inception. Should the mode be more rewarding for those that cant make it to lighthouse? Absolutely. But lighthouse itself should and has maintained its prestige. Sbmm would destroy the entire purpose of the mode - it's a tournament style playlist. Not a competitive one. You fight progressively stronger opponents and knock out or get knocked out.

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            1. Carrying isn't a huge issue. The guy is still playing and may just be learning how to play Trials with his friends. You can't punish that. It isn't a recovery, which is an entirely new issue. 2. True SBMM has no place in Trials. It is an [i]open[/i] tournament that you [i]choose[/i] to enter and try to climb the ladder. That would be like adding skill brackets to an open chess tournaments. That defeats the entire purpose of an open tournament. 3. I think outlier protection might be a must though. Trials can be brutal, and it depends on RNG. [i]Someone[/i] has to match the 3000 ELO stacked team. [i]Someone[/i] has to match the streamer. I think it may be good if the system at least prevented new guys from matching that team. New players would learn nothing and have a zero percent chance of winning that match.

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            • All I can say is, call of duty is king because of sbmm. Btw, fortnite, r6s, overwatch etc... all titles more popular than this, and all have sbmm

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              • Iron Banner has SBMM.

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                • In short in my opinion carries are cheating. IT Demeans the value of going flawless. The reason why people wanted trials back is so they can make money from it all the paid carries. casual players will never play trials successfully it's just season players versus seasoned players so good one for the exclusion BunGIE

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                  • Trials needs to die and go away. It's broken. Has been forever. Jumping off the map is nothing new. I'd like to see how many got the Messenger by simply jumping every match. <---That's the number 1 indicator of "competitive" play. People losing on purpose because the mode is soooooo broken. The fix is and always has been [b][u]1 flawless run per account[/u][/b]. Logging in on a different machine = permanently banned. SBMM should absolutely be a thing - getting stomped in 30 seconds doesn't teach anyone anything other than stay out of this mode. Stop catering to the 1% if you want Trials to succeed. Until that happens, Trials and Flawless are a joke. Most of the "rewards" are paid for on 3rd party sites. <-- that's pay 2 win for all the Eververse haters.

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                    • Trials carries are not fine with me and i have made a rather lengthy post as to why. But me not being a content creater or streamer makes anything i say invalid.

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                    • Neither are fine

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                      • Carries ok Recovs no

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                        • I have mixed feelings about this, on the one hand if people want to brag about being top tier players "flawless" then you should have to beat the best to be the best. On the other hand it could make not very good players feel as if they are better than they are and take away from the prestige of going flawless. I feel like it should be sbmm for first couple matches then last couple switch to cbmm so you get more people playing but you still have to be good to get to the lighthouse.

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                        • I've actually just started to somewhat get into playing trials and if it turns into SBMM that would be it for me. SBMM is in comp and look at how a ton of players play comp. They run at the other team until the matchmaking plinkos them to the next rank. They do this because with SBMM the game decides so much of what's going on that it doesn't really matter what a lot of players do. It's just not real. You don't even really want it. [quote]Some people are gonna be like "Well what if I want to play with a friend who's not as good in trials?" This is where averaging comes in. Your score and your friends scores will be added then divided to put you in a lobby that averages out to a comparable team skill level. [/quote] Why do people think that matchmaking should work in such a way that they should be telling it what type of players they will find acceptable to play on their way to reaching literally the pinnacle PvP achievement of the game? [quote] I'd rather play with people who are at my skill [/quote] In a real PvP where other real people are playing too the game can't always be concerned with you and who you would "rather play." I'm sorry I'm not trying to annoy you but the things people think they are supposed to be able to ask for at the expense of others in this game are just mind boggling. Just zero consideration for what getting what you want will do to other people. Its a mode where people are competing. It can't be stopped to ask you who you would "rather play." Does it work right and provide a high quality experience and is it trying to be as fair as possible given the various circumstances surrounding the mode is all anyone should really be asking for.

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                          • You will have a big backlash from the recovery clown if you want to actually change trials so the average will succeed.

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                          • The easiest thing they could do without removing the "sanctity" of flawless is removing the 3 lose and your out That way more people will play to get win 5 and 7 reward Carry and recovery get hit a bit(some people's pay just to get the 5or 7 loot) It doesn't affect legit player that goes for flawless(it even can give them a sweat break since matchmaking is based on the wins) I don't think easy flawless run is the way to go ...but not preventing us to play the game is

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                          • Edited by Stomp: 2/21/2021 11:01:55 AM
                            In a trials landscape SBMM hurts everyone. It doesn't benefit the bottom or top players if the goal is to win 7 games in a row without losing. SBMM works towards a 50/50 win/loss ration. If your goal is to kill the playlist then that's an easy way to do it. What really needs to happen is the loot incentive needs to go way up for participation in general. Old trials gear no longer in the win loot pool needs to be in an after game drop loot pool. They should award 3 tokens for a win and 2 for a loss. There should be non powerful gear bounties that award at least the 3 and 5 win awards if not 3, 5, and 7. Adept weapons need to be a curated roll the first time you get them so that people don't get an unusable roll on their adept weapon. Random roll on first drop hurts the players that struggle going flawless.

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                            • I'm a big proponent of sbmm but how would this even make sense? Flawless is what Trials is all about and how would anyone go Flawless with sbmm? Trials is Trials. It and Iron Banner should never have sbmm because having sbmm in the context of LL enabled makes zero sense. Everything else should. Why Bungie can't figure that out is beyond me.

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                            • I know virtually no one who is okay with paid carries or recovs. You are creating a group of people that essentially doesn’t exist, outside of the people profiting. The problem is that it is impossible to completely stop recovs or carries. How can Bungie tell the difference between a friend playing on your account and someone being paid to do so? How can Bungie tell the difference between a group of friends helping you out and two randoms being paid to carry you? Yes, there are superficial things they can try to do but ultimately it is a battle they’ll never win. People who play Trials understand that carries and recovs are inevitable whereas SBMM isn’t and completely trivializes the Trials experience.

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                            • The problem is that the PvP community is toxic.they only care about themselves and bungie are giving them the tools to succeed No SBMM in QP so they stack and stat farm against randoms and lo light Trial entire formula is for them to be able to make money out of desperate people's .... Why would they want change when it make them look better and makes them money every weekend?

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                            • Trials is -blam!-ed. The amount of times we started our cards against teams with 4+ flawless runs this week was ridiculous. I haven't moaned about stasis at all since its introduction (in fact, I love being pulled mach 5 into an open space by a duskfield grenade and team shot by 3 adept trials handcannons, in the first round of my first card) - but statis has made trials almost unplayable unless you truly are the elite 0.1%. Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of competitiveness, but when you're steam rolled by people who spend 24 hours a day doing trials, it's a bit off putting.

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                              • Tldr ... destiny pvp is a joke bro ... needs to be removed completely

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                              • Thanks for the upvotes so far guys I really appreciate it. We need some kind of landscape change for trials. Albeit SBMM might not be the best way to do it but it's much better than the current system that were running.

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                              • It really needs to be said. We need SBMM in Trials. If it’s going to be a -blam!-ing competitive playlist then treat it like a goddamn competitive playlist. And like it or not, that means making it a challenge no matter your skill level. Appealing to the top 1% that just stomps on everyone else is the best way to neuter your playerbase, especially when the best loot (like the Adept Hand Cannon this week) is locked behind Flawless.

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                              • Have you tried being better?

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