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originally posted in: Special ammo is too common in pvp
10/23/2020 2:20:19 PM
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Wes
Wes

Maybe. But green boxes blow. Make primary kills drop 2 shots (maybe 3 with double scavenger) and special kills only drop 1. That right there will result in significantly less ammo generation without promoting camping and slowing the game down.
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  • It wouldn't really fix much. Shotguns only need one to kill, still gives infinite shotty ammo with that system. Jotunn can kill as many people as are in the lethal zone of the blast radius. One well placed shot and you have more ammo than you spent, making profit every time. Snipers only need 1 to kill (not all but the ones everyone uses) so again, same issue as shotties. Special kills shouldn't give special at all. Primary giving 2? Sensible, but still too generous. If someone went on a killing spree with an easy-kill weapon like Gnawing Hunger, Summoner, or any sidearm, they'd have a full mag and a decent chuck in their reserves on whatever weapon they used. Reduce that to one though. 1 special bullet for every primary kill. You would have to REALLY slay out to get any good amount of ammo, even with easy-kill weapons. It would reward an aggressive playstyle while requiring you to actually get out and play the game instead of camping with special. And if dying reset your special to 0, even better. Rewards skilled play, punishes special reliance.

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  • 2
    Special kills dropping one shot means the moment you miss, that's it. That right there puts an end to special only streaks without penalizing players who use their special well. A player shouldn't be forced into a position where they need special and get punished for using it. Making special kills drop no ammo does that. A player whobuses their special well with their primary shouldn't have an ammo problem. And if someone is using a "no skill primary" to rack up kills and hoard ammo, they are just as likely to be killed by another "no skill primary" and lose it all.

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  • If you miss with shotgun - you are dead even with 3 ammo per kill drop. Your changes wont do shit.

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  • 2
    Not really. My system would penalize players that don't get the OHK with a special and players that miss. And if you miss with a shotgun, there are plenty of ways to try and get out of it. Smoke. Melee. Get behind cover. Jump. Dodge. Jump then dodge. Follow up shot. Teammates. Grenade. My system would also mathematically result in significantly less special ammo generation than the current system for every single match. No question about that.

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  • I... can't tell if this is in favor of or against the idea. Your first paragraph sounds like it's in favor. It's a good thing that it puts an end to special only streaks. The second sounds like you have an issue with it but that issue isn't valid. If you get plenty of primary kills, you get plenty of special ammo. If you NEED special ammo to win a fight, and the other person doesn't NEED special ammo to win that fight, you don't deserve to win that fight. And the only people who will struggle to gain special ammo are those that are garbage without them. It promotes improving yourself. Under that system, you HAVE to be capable with your primary. Special ammo wouldn't be rare, just earned instead of given freely and generously like it is now. And yes, they are just as likely to be killed by another no skill primary, but I hear that and raise you this: when two no-skill weapons face each other, the better player still wins unless they've got other factors going against them. But even then, if you're good enough, you can come out on top.

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  • 1
    Special kills should drop one shot. You miss, you get punished. As it should be. The Crucible is wild and unpredictable. People are going to find themselves in a postition where they need 3 shots of special. The third guy shouldn't kill them because the first two kills didn't drop any. And my bigger issue is people should be able to play the way they want. If that's special only ape mode, so be it. But if they miss, special only streak ends. Their fault. If special kills drop nothing, that playstyle is impossible. If it is a careful cadence of special and primary play, so be it. Special kills dropping only one shot allows that. If special kills drop no shots, that playstyle is much less viable. If that's 80% primary play with a little splash of special, great. They'll be able to do that under this system. And mathematically, there are zero combinations of special akd primary kills where my proposed system generates more ammo than the current one. It will be an improvement at the very least without limiting play.

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  • Your system wouldn't fix the shotgun ape issue. It wouldn't fix the sniper issue, it would just make it SLIGHTLY less common. Your system doesn't fix any of the cheap, scummy, or boring ways people play. The game should be fun for EVERYONE. Allowing people to have special for special kills makes it very hard to enjoy the game because they're using weapons that are stupid strong ALL THE TIME. Primary is called primary for a reason. Special weapons should FEEL special. But with that much special ammo, they're just another primary.

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  • 1
    I have yet to meet a single ape who didn't miss a single shot in a match. I also have yet to meet a single sniper who didn't miss a single shot in a match. Both of them would be out of ammo the moment they missed.

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  • Not really. Under your system, primary kills drop 2 special shots. Special kills drop 1. So for two primary kills you get 4 shots of special. If even half those are kills, you get 2 more shots. I'd love to know how "2 special shots for every primary kill" equals "they're out of ammo if they miss even once".

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  • 1
    If you start with one special shot and miss, you're out of ammo. Unless you aren't reliant on your special and get primary kills first. But at that point you aren't part of the problem are you? Even if people decide to use their primary so they can go on special rampages, that's their choice and it increases primary play, which is the entire point of this in the first place.

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  • The system i mentioned does the exact same thing but better. For every primary kill you get, you get one special ammo bullet. You get no special from special kills. You get no special at the start. You absolutely HAVE to earn it. It doesn't just punish those that ARE the problem, it forces them to get used to using their primary and makes them better players for it. If you want to go on special streaks, you absolutely can, provided you've earned enough ammo to do so. Don't want to go on one, just want to use the special now and then? You can, you can swap weapons regularly and it encourages that playstyle. It totally removes the ability to go on infinite special streaks. It forces you to actually use your PRIMARY weapon like it's a PRIMARY instead of using a SPECIAL weapon like it's a PRIMARY weapon. Your system is literally just a worse version of the one i mentioned. Stop with all this "but they should be able to play how they want!" Crap. They ought to play in a way that is enjoyable for EVERYONE, and infinite special is ONLY fun for the user, NOT the people actually trying to play the game.

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  • 1
    Ah. It "forces" people to play a certain way? [i]Your[/i] way? Good to know that's where your priorities are. My system does what yours does while allowing freedom in builds and fantasies. Many would say that makes mine better. Your idea throws all double special builds and special focused fantasies into the trash. But you don't care about that. So agree to disagree.

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  • What if I have a power weapon fantasy outside of Mayhem? Should Bungie cater to that and give me Truth ammo whenever I spawn so that I can fulfill that dream?

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  • Primary weapons are called Primary weapons because they're supposed to be your main weapon. Screw double special, screw "but i wanna bastion and erentil people to death!" Special ammo should be earned, not given. People need to stop trying so hard to cater to the apes and scrubs. If you have to EARN special, you get better faster. What's wrong with that?

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