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11/5/2019 11:26:03 PM
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HoTh

atheists are the same as flat earthers.

now naturally, not all atheists fit this statement. but anyone who says that a god doesn't exist because they have not seen it are the same as flat earthers. Here is the logical breakdown. [b]Planar Theory is the pinnacle of Empiricism.[/b] [quote]Empiricism, in philosophy, the view that all concepts originate in experience, that all concepts are about or applicable to things that can be experienced, or that all rationally acceptable beliefs or propositions are justifiable or knowable only through experience.[/quote] https://www.britannica.com/topic/empiricism In short, the empirical method says that the only rationally acceptable beliefs are things that have been personally experienced through our own senses. This is a fundamental building block of flat earth theory. [quote]The evidence for a flat earth is derived from many different facets of science and philosophy. The simplest is by relying on ones own senses to discern the true nature of the world around us. The world looks flat, the bottoms of clouds are flat, the movement of the sun; these are all examples of your senses telling you that we do not live on a spherical heliocentric world. [/quote] http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,1324.msg1312141.html#msg1312141 From this excerpt alone, we can already see the hallmark building blocks of the empirical method being used. It speaks to the sensory experience and how what we perceive points the earth being flat. This is also an argument used by many atheists. Many times, I've been asked on these very forums about how god can exist if we have not seen him, or if we have not seen direct evidence of him existing. I often other peoples accounts of the divine, but those are rejected as delusional or fabrications in an attempt to control people. [quote]The most commonly accepted explanation of this is that the space agencies of the world are involved in a conspiracy faking space travel and exploration. This likely began during the Cold War's 'Space Race', in which the U.S.S.R and USA were obsessed with beating each other into space to the point that each faked their accomplishments in an attempt to keep pace with the others supposed achievements. However, since the end of the Cold War, the conspiracy is most likely motivated by greed rather than political gains. Thus opening up a tremendous amounts of funds to embezzle as it only takes a fraction of the total budget to fake space travel.[/quote] As we can see here, the same exact argument is made here. People in power made up the narrative to serve their own political goals and to enrich themselves. Next I often point to is that the Bible is evidence, but they make the same points here. [quote]In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence. It is too easily manipulated and altered. Many of the videos posted here to "prove a round earth" by showing curvature will show no curvature or even convex curvature at parts. The sources are so inaccurate it's difficult to build an argument on them in either case. Furthermore, barrel distortion and other quirks of modern cameras will cause a picture to distort with little or no apparent altercation; especially without references within the picture. Photographs are also prone to distortion when taken through the bent glass of a pressurized cabin as well as atmospheric conditions on the outside. With this litany of problems, it's easy to see why photographic evidence is not to be trusted.[/quote] How different does this sound than "the Bible cannot be trusted because it has been edited and changed by government officials to benefit themselves." You cannot use an argument for one purpose, then turn around and say that the same argument is stupid. That makes you a liar and a hypocrite. So please, atheists, I implore you to move beyond the bland arguments that god doesn't exist because you can't see it, or the claim that you need empirical proof that god exists in order for him to exist. It's stupid and is a logical fallacy. I am by no means saying the earth is flat, I am open minded enough to believe others at their word. but anyone who says that god cannot be real because I have not seen him better be an astronaut, or also believe the earth is flat. TL;DR [b]I have not seen god therefore he doesn't exist is and empirical statement.[/b] [b]The earth is flat because I have not seen the earth to be round is also an empirical statement.[/b] [b]Both of these statements are equally valid.[/b] [b]therefor, if you believe the first statement, you must also believe the second statement. Atheists are the same as flat earthers.[/b]

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  • I disagree with this assessment. It is predicated on the assumption that a lack of personal experience equals an empirical solution in the minds of both atheists and flat earthers. Now, I understand that OP said that this does not apply to all athiests, but I don’t believe that this applies to anyone except a very select few. By the OPs description of the thought process, “If I haven’t seen it with my own eyes, then it empirically 100% does not exist.” would be the thought process that both atheists and flat earthers utilize for all beliefs. The claim that if you believe one, you must believe the other. If this were true, then flat earthers and athiests would also not believe that mountains exist if they have never been to one themselves, that Japan, Amsterdam, Australia, Iceland, London, don’t exist if they have never been there, etc. Basically, if they haven’t seen it with their own eyes, not only would they not believe in it, but they would also believe that empirically, 100%, that it does not exist. So someone who has never seen a whale with their own eyes would assert that whales absolutely do not exist as an empirical fact, if they were to subscribe to this sort of logic. This is not how athiests or flat earthers think. The thought process is one of requiring sufficient evidence to prove the claim. So well there may be some validity in comparing the two groups, in the sense that each group feels that there is a claim that is being made with no evidence to support it, or that the truth is different than what people say it is, belief in one does not require belief in the other. There are both atheists and flat earthers who have never seen the bottom of the deepest ocean with their own eyes. But I would be willing to bet that the majority of then believe it is there from the evidence available. This proves the idea that athiests and flat earthers must both believe in both concepts is an assumption based in flawed logic.

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    • Christians are the same as 5 year olds who believe in fairytales.

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      • That's the stupidest analogy I have ever seen. The correct statement for atheists would be more like: I have not seen God and neither is there any scientifically replicable proof of his existence so I don't believe in him. It's very easy to see that God is a man made construct. I don't know how people are unable to see that.

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        • I think you’re a wee bit confused, mate.

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          • I think you drew an interesting parallel between athiest empiricists and empirical flat earthers. The title is definitely bait and meant to get a reaction out of people, but your argument seems sound. Nicely done.

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            • You’re right but I hate you making this argument

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              • Wasnt raised with religion so could care less about it tbh

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                • Atheism doesn’t make a claim. Invalid comparison.

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                  • Edited by ZARDOZ: 11/6/2019 1:56:28 AM
                    This argument only works if you completely ignore and/or misrepresent atheists actual arguments. Nice strawman though. Edit: [quote][b]I have not seen god therefore he doesn't exist is and empirical statement.[/b][/quote] I’m gonna fix this for you: I have not seen evidence or rational justification to demonstrate the truth of the claim that a god exists. Therefore the claim has not met its burden of proof and I am not rationally justified in accepting it. I have not made any empirical truth statements about god’s existence myself. I just don’t think there is sufficient justification to accept the theists truth statement that god exists.

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                    • I'm not sure I've ever seen this argument used by anyone who is even remotely educated on theistic philosophy, but I mean congrats, this is mostly cohesive take on an argument that still gives people no reason to believe in god. That said, since I feel like having a little fun, I've been told countless times by many christians that god is everywhere and in all places, so if he is, and I haven't experienced him, how is he there? Or how could it be shown that he is there?

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                    • Totally flawed logic. Actually the curvature of the earth is able to be seen. You realise that undermines your whole argument? Aside from that, the basic logical structure is the same as the black Swan argument. A logical fallicy. Yawn.

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                    • Edited by Organic Machine: 11/6/2019 10:04:48 PM
                      Yikes. No, double yikes. Too much yikes for one post.

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                    • Atheists are the same as flat earthers as in they are both right :^)

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                    • Edited by ILikeKool: 11/6/2019 6:02:50 PM
                      Atheist are still fools because the circular flat earth is basically God’s creation also they still believe science fiction nonsensical garbage like outer space, planets and primordial soup.

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                      • 1
                        GiantSlayer
                        GiantSlayer

                        Known as “Homeschool” to a few - old

                        This man has balls of pure adamantium.

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                      • [I’m atheist, but not just because I have my own doubts about the existence of a god(s). My other reason is that I don’t want to be constantly harassed by other members of a religion that I’m not living my life “according to gods plan,” as is the unfortunate case for my brother.]

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                        • Use the same arguments. May believe the same things. Are not the same, but are similar. An atheist can believe in a flat earth. An atheist can believe in a globe earth. A theist can believe in a flat earth. A theist can believe in a globe earth. [spoiler]I believe in God because I have seen him! Is that a true statement? There is more to belief and unbelief. [/spoiler] [spoiler]From my viewpoint, God allows sin in order to better shape us. Sinners take the other route that God gives/gave them. He allows death, rape, and everything bad, along with everything nice to exist so that we may love him. I present you with vegetables and cake. You eat the vegetables, I’m happy. You eat the cake, I’m mad. Why? Because I told you not to eat the cake. Why allow the devil to tempt Christians? Why give your system a backdoor? Why give your enemy the means to hurt you? He created perfection, a vast universe filled rock and dust and gas and liquid and plasma. Yet he allowed his perfection to become imperfect. He created the devil, the most beautiful of his followers and servants. Allowed jealousy to take over. Allowed Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, which he created, and banished the humans.[/spoiler] more to come

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                          • [quote]This is gr8 b8, but . . . I expected better from you, HoTh.[/quote] ^Wyoming

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                          • ... Does NO ONE read tags anymore? smh mang... [spoiler]not included in the DLC[/spoiler]

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                          • Edited by N00bMaster69: 11/6/2019 12:35:33 PM
                            Surely it's the exact same for religious people? Plus there is so much more for why I personally don't believe in a god, it's not just because I haven't seen one.

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                            • Every day I think about that time flat earthers tried to prove the earth is flat and accidentally proved its round

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                              • Can we also put anti vaxxers in there?

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                                • I've never I know said god doesn't exist purely because I haven't seen it. I know that all religions are fabrications of mans imagination, in the unlike event there is some sort of being or race that would fit the definition of a god, it wouldn't be anything described in any man made religion. They would just be a higher race that seeded us here. There's as much chance of Yahweh existing as there is of allah or the tasty spaghetti monster. Zilch. 🤷‍♂️

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                                  • Thank you @onion [spoiler]perhaps you could join the void...[/spoiler]

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                                  • Oh my god, you are right. As an atheist I never saw it like that. I will drop my heathen ways and go to church immediatly.

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                                    • Edited by BudgieKing: 11/8/2019 11:46:47 PM
                                      Doxosnsndbdbdhjdjwnsndhdndnsbbbanskdkjejdndnnbs wbendiqowenendnd [spoiler]wrong post...[/spoiler]

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