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6/18/2019 5:18:42 PM
36
No.
Because our negative feedback is the reason why we aren't still playing vanilla Destiny 2.
English
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Uhhhhh what? Whining throughout D1 is the reason we got vanilla D2.....
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No. We got vanilla D2 because Activision wanted the Crucible to become an e-sport. Activision owns Major League Gaming.
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No. We got vanilla D2 as a direct response to 3 years of people crying "no story," "too much RNG," that raids are the only way to cap, about PvP imbalance, no reason to patrol, not enough ways to progress, no way to max for PvP players, and a ton more. If you've been paying attention whatsoever, there is no doubt that vanilla D2 was their response to whining here. They even said it, many times. "We heard you, so D2 will have xx amount of cutscenes, compared to xx amount of cutscenes throughout all of D1." Remember that? It's not close to questionable. Activision also wanted to turn it into an e-sport, sure, but that doesn't change that most of the changes had nothing to do with that. Some did. Most didn't.
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[quote]No. We got vanilla D2 as a direct response to 3 years of people crying "no story," "too much RNG," that raids are the only way to cap, about PvP imbalance, no reason to patrol, not enough ways to progress, no way to max for PvP players, and a ton more. If you've been paying attention whatsoever, there is no doubt that vanilla D2 was their response to whining here. They even said it, many times. "We heard you, so D2 will have xx amount of cutscenes, compared to xx amount of cutscenes throughout all of D1." Remember that? It's not close to questionable. Activision also wanted to turn it into an e-sport, sure, but that doesn't change that most of the changes had nothing to do with that. Some did. Most didn't.[/quote] D1 right at the end (when they revamped old raids and gear) was as perfect as Destiny could be, could only improve from there, nobody complained about it Bungievision made D2 to be a bland story game with focus on PVP in hopes of making it an esport, it failed, we told them they -blam!-ed up, here we are now.. it only got better (a g a i n) over time, now we got a good season going and in Sept we get a new standalone DLC / game, D2 goes free to play , cross save , armor mods 2.0 , etc etc.
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[quote] D1 right at the end (when they revamped old raids and gear) was as perfect as Destiny could be, could only improve from there, nobody complained about it [/quote] Now all that simply isn't true. First, D2 currently is WAY better than D1 was, even at the very end. It's not close. Second, people were absolutely complaining about D1, even at the end. There were hundreds of posts about how people couldn't wait for D2 because it could fix all the problems with D1. Whatever you feel about the realization of that, or lack thereof, there's no question people were still complaining. And they should have. We were 3 years in, and were rounding out a ~9month (somewhere between 8 and 11 months, depending on how fast you burn through content) content drought, coming off a DLC that was generally pretty good but was smaller in scale than a forsaken/TTK to begin with. [quite] Bungievision made D2 to be a bland story game with focus on PVP in hopes of making it an esport, it failed, we told them they -blam!-ed up, here we are now.. it only got better (a g a i n) over time, now we got a good season going and in Sept we get a new standalone DLC / game, D2 goes free to play , cross save , armor mods 2.0 , etc etc.[/quote] Again, there are a lot of reasons we got D2 vanilla. The attempt at e-sports is just one of them. Many changes were direct responses to requests of the community.
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Edited by Nineball2112: 6/19/2019 1:50:02 PM[quote]First, D2 currently is WAY better than D1 was,[/quote] THIS is not even CLOSE. D2 is still, in no way, shape, or form, better than D1. Wow, we can now grab ledges. Cool.
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Disagree. D2 IS a better game than D1 in some very important ways....but also a worse game. D2 has WAY more to do than D1 ever had.....and the content is of better quality than much of what we did in D1. The problem is that D2 has major systems problems (compared to D1) that are the result of bad design decisions in developing D2....and bad follow-on decisions trying to cover up the resulting weaknesses. Namely the gear system is too simple and too shallow to generate much in the way of interesting loot to chase. This impacts the entire game. As a result of this Bungie has tried to keep us playing with an endless item level grind which feels tedious and unrewarding. These problems are starting to get better, which (imo) is why Season of Opulence and the Menagerie are being so well-recieved. The game is less stingy. The leveling process is less tedoious, painful and RANDOM. So the game is starting to feel fun to play again, and not a chore. For the first time since the Forsaken DLC itself, I'm back to playing all three of my characters and enjoying it. I don't have time to do everything in the game....but I'm also leveling up fast enough that I don't feel this pressure to HAVE to do so. I've just been playing steadily, and my main character got his first 750 drop yesterday.
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D2 has WAY more to do than D1 ever had = Factually true and the content is of better quality than much of what we did in D1. = Subjective I don't feel like the content is of better quality. Is D2 getting better each season? Absolutely, but it still has a way to go before it's as good as D1 was at the end.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 6/20/2019 1:46:28 PM[quote]Is D2 getting better each season? Absolutely, but it still has a way to go before it's as good as D1 was at the end.[/quote] Nostalgia. What made Y3 Destiny 1 such a rewarding play experience WERE the systems issues that I point out. The reality is once you were done with the content that released with Wrath of the Machine....there basically wasn't anything else to do in the game until the Age of Triumph....and AoT was basically just a refresh of 3 years of accumulated raids. But what D1 had that D2 didn't was a well STRUCTURED end-game....and one that offered somethign for every kind of player. 1. Casual/ Solo PVE Just level up playing strikes or open world stuff. 2. 3-man PVE? Challenge of the Elders and early horde mode activities like Archon's Forge. 3. 3-man PVP? Trials of Osiris. 4. Solo PVP? Iron Banner. 5. 6-man PVE? Raids. ...and each one of these end-game micro-environments had interesting loot to chase, and offered fun-and-rewarding play loops. The problem with D2 is that it was designed to play like a campaign shooter....and to (in reality) have a PVP oriented end-game. Which the community rejected....and the game has been playing catch-up ever since. ...and the end-game has unravelled. Trials is dead. Iron Banner is pointless. The Raids lack a compelling loot pool once you get past the raid exotic.....and PVP has been turned into a pub-stomping ground that most people dont want to even go into, because of poor MM, worse maps, and pinnacle weapon spam. So the end-game (because of these systems problems) has become very narrow. The Black Armory Forges were a baby step towards breaking out of this.....but now Menagerie is a stronger, more confident step back towards the "formula" that made Y3 D1 work. TLDR: Destiny 2 is still...in many ways....a game with a lot do to...but few compellings to motivate people to do those things. Destiny 1 was a well-designed loot-based RPG by the end of its run. Destiny 2 IS NOT...and is still trying to get BACK to being one.
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[quote]...and each one of these end-game micro-environments had interesting loot to chase, and offered fun-and-rewarding play loops.[/quote] Yeah, and that might be where the "nostalgia" that you mention comes into play. Maybe if I felt like my time investment was being better rewarded, I wouldn't feel the way I feel. And it's possible, I'm still just harboring ill will towards the game because of all the stuff that went on in Vanilla D2.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 6/20/2019 1:53:36 PMUnderstandable. The point I've been trying to make is that the SYSTEM problems that Destiny 2 has as a result of trying to REBRAND itself as a campaign shooter and e-sport BROKE the game in such a fundamental way....and affected people's experience of playing the game in such a fundamental way..... ...that its hard to see the things that it does right. Because EVERY aspect of the game is affected by the things it has done---and in some casees, still doing----wrong.
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Correct. D1 was never close to as good as D2 currently is.
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Reading comprehension issues as well. To be expected.
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/whoosh
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Exactly. It went right over your head.
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Woo boy. That self awareness
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Edited by Nineball2112: 6/19/2019 7:24:26 PMI know, right? You're severely lacking and it's kinda embarrassing for you.
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No we didn't. Every change that got made to the game from Destiny 1 were ALL the changes you would need to have the Crucible accepted as an e-sport. None of those changes were asked for by the PVE community. Activision owns MLG...and EVERY Activision-Blizzard property that has PVP that is "competitive", is an e-sport. Call of Duty. Starcraft. Overwatch....and they wanted to add Destiny to that stable. Except the effort failed.
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Explain how cutscenes served to achieve e-sport status. No one is arguing that activision forced the game into an e-sports model, with respect to PvP. That had an impact on PvE with respect to some things, namely fixed rolls. You're intentionally ignoring a large amount of other changes that had nothing to do with that.
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[quote]Explain how cutscenes served to achieve e-sport status. No one is arguing that activision forced the game into an e-sports model, with respect to PvP. That had an impact on PvE with respect to some things, namely fixed rolls. You're intentionally ignoring a large amount of other changes that had nothing to do with that.[/quote] NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT CUTSCENES ARE YOU DENSE, D2 was made with 70% focus on PVP while the 20% remaining was on the mega barebones game that sucked and should've just been a dlc for D1 (but couldn't be because 1. Memory constraints , 2. Their contract made them have to make another game , 3. Needed to make it all in an updated engine) The reason why fixed rolls were a thing is because that's what they did to balance pvp and cuz it was hard for them to balance random rolls
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Ok I can't even continue to engage with you because, at this point, you're either illiterate or stupid. Go back and read again....
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[quote]Ok I can't even continue to engage with you because, at this point, you're either illiterate or stupid. Go back and read again....[/quote] I read the comments and I'm pretty damn sure you're the one who originally brought up the bs about cutscenes, you're the only one talking about it And sure yes go hide your head in the sand, D2 vanilla was garbage, now it's better, more than D1? In some ways yes, but some things are still lacking. But regardless rn D2 can only get even better
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Edited by Stives09: 6/18/2019 10:58:16 PMYep. I am the one talking about it. Correct. Uhhhhhhh
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[quote]Yep. I am the one talking about it. Correct. Uhhhhhhh[/quote] Yes, so uhhhhhhhh nobody. Cares. About. That. Why even bring cutscenes up when bungie wanted to have D2 be less cutscenes and more "out there to find" story telling (scanables, etc)
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You're embarrassing yourself. When the stroke is over, do yourself a huge favor and go back. To the beginning. And read again. Slowly.....
