JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

OffTopic

Surf a Flood of random discussion.
Edited by Hurexus: 3/1/2017 5:03:45 AM
69

Atheists cannot logically argue against God because of evil

Theodicy (the problem of evil) is an extremely invalid argument from the atheistic Worldview. To argue against evil, you must assume an objective good. Yet, such a source cannot exist under the atheistic presuppositions. According to atheism, there is no good or evil, only the confines of culture and society that mold and shape our perceptions of good and evil. However, if there is no right, then there can truly be no wrong. It's all relative to the person's point of view. Edit: The conversation has been good, friends. I appreciate the respectful way we've composed ourselves tonight/today/whatever time of day it is for you. I'm off to the land of Nod, but keep the comments coming. I'll try to continue replying to as many as I can in the morning. God Bless. Edit 2: Once again, my need for sleep overcomes my desire to continue the discussions. However, if you fine folks are still lively in the morning, we'll continue the discussion. It's been enjoyable, friends! I appreciate the general air of respect, despite our remarkably obvious differences of opinion. Hurexus out.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Y'all need Satan.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Replace the term evil with bad people, now what?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • God is evil though.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    4 Replies
    • Atheists, gosh, you guys are dumb. I'm real.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      3 Replies
      • So what you're saying is that Atheists cannot make a valid argument whether god exists because evil exists?

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • most people place beliefs in what they can see others in solely what they feel neither can be conclusively proved wrong. but i myself see the bible as something not right it depicts a being that to some may be selfless and to others cruel and enigmatic inherently human if i do say so myself flawed in some ways. to say or think such things is seen as blasphemy or will incur the wrath of god but that further humanize's the almighty being which to me makes it all seem as something made by man. i choose to believe in humanity itself so really am i an atheist i choose to believe in people some who ill never get to meet flawed with voids that they desperatley want to fill but its within these flaws and this void that they find space to fill themselves with joy a concept that defies logic.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • [u] [/u]

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • The salt sustains me

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • Satan was the good guy [spoiler]wort[/spoiler] [spoiler]wort[/spoiler]

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • Jesus, why do atheists get so triggered about what people believe?

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            20 Replies
            • And religous people can't argue for their god by saying humans exist. That's not proof that any individual god is the true god everyone should worship.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • There is no objective morality. Morality has changed with each culture. For example, slavery, which was condoned by the Bible, has been ended. Inequality of women and homosexuals, condoned in the Bible, has been ended. I pose that there is [u]no right or wrong with the existence of a god[/u]. Divine command theory states that whatever god proclaims is right is right, and whatever is wrong is wrong. For example, when god told the Israelites to slaughter every man, woman, child, and animal of the Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3), you cannot say this is wrong while believing in god. However, secularists can say that slaughtering children is wrong. There can ONLY be morality without a god. Morals change, and the only way to improve upon morality is with secularism.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              2 Replies
              • This doesnt prove shit against athiests

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • That's dumb.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                17 Replies
                • Religious people can't argue logically about anything because they are insane people who have imaginary friends.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  7 Replies
                  • [quote]To argue against evil, you must assume an objective good. Yet, such a source cannot exist under the atheistic presuppositions.[/quote]1. Theism doesn't grant an "objective" good it just shifts the "subjectivity" up to God's decree. This is not morality in any useful definition of the term we've conceived of to help us distinguish right and wrong in accordance with human life. 2. Secular objective morality actually can exist for the same reason good and bad moves in chess can exist. Objectively there are moves in chess in any situation beneficial to a player winning the game, and detrimental to the player winning the game. If the object of the game is to win, then making a move detrimental to your chances of winning is objectively bad. Objectively there are things which are beneficial to human life and detrimental to human life. This is actually even simpler than the chess analogy since it can be reduced to, if the object of human life is human life, then doing something detrimental to human life is objectively bad. Now you can expand this to theism if you'd like and say, "Ah yes well in theism the object is to align your beliefs and actions as closely with God's as possible, and so any action not aligned with God's is objectively bad," however at that point your "moral system" has been completely separated from the quality and flourishing of human life. If your morality has nothing to do with what is right and wrong in interacting with and benefiting living beings then it's essentially not a moral system. And then you can say, "Ah well God's decrees are in alignment with what is most beneficial to life!" which they actually aren't but at that point God is useless since if he's just agreeing with things that are beneficial to life we can already find out those things by living and the moral standard exists without him since it's acknowledging there is are objective parameters independent of God's will which determine morality of an action. Thus God is made moot if this approach is taken even from a theistic standpoint. [quote]According to atheism[/quote]According to atheism, the claim "There is a God," does not have sufficient evidence for belief. That is it. Anything else written after "according to atheism" is some sort of extra add-on that is not at all according to atheism. Atheism is the stance on exactly one issue. So no, to everything that followed this.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    40 Replies
                    • Edited by Romans43: 3/1/2017 10:01:41 PM
                      0
                      Romans43
                      Romans43

                      s t a t u s - old

                      ..

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      3 Replies
                      • Ok.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • I'm pretty sure atheism is just the belief that there is no god, and that's it.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • The existence of good or evil does not hinge upon the existence of a God. What we perceive as "good" or "evil" is passed down from generation to generation in human societies. For instance, we know that murder and rápe are wrong, and we consider it evil. We teach younger generations what is and is not socially acceptable. (Insert Nature vs. Nurture debate here). I think it's ridiculous to assume that because we have good people and bad people in this world, that it somehow proves that God exists. I don't see how those two things are linked whatsoever. If God did exist, how would we know that He's inherently "good"? How can humans assume to know the nature of a God who we've never seen or talked to? Sadly, there's no proof whatsoever that He does exist. The Bible doesn't prove His existence through vague stories written 2,000+ years ago by some religious fanatics in the desert. Religion is mostly based off of personal feelings without any facts to back it up. Tl;dr - Good and evil does exist in society based on our perceptions of what's right and wrong, but is NOT tied to the existence of any God or Devil. God's existence cannot be proven, or fully disproven.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          34 Replies
                          • In religion, technically there is no logic/science because that would be somewhat called blasphemy.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            9 Replies
                            • There's a fundamental flaw in both theism and atheism and that that there is no proof that god does or does not exist. Theists choose to believe that there holy book and what they've been taught is the truth. While atheists believe there is no evidence therefore it can not be true. I choose to believe in god based on a couple of reasons I'm not comfortable with putting online

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • I don't believe in god but I still think killing babies is evil.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • [quote]Theodicy (the problem of evil) is an extremely invalid argument from the atheistic Worldview. To argue against evil, you must assume an objective good[/quote] False on both counts. 1. What exactly is an atheistic world view? An atheist is a person who does not believe in god(s). The way they view the world can vastly differ depending on many factors. Their stance on moral objectivity is not inherently tied to their belief in a supreme being. For example: a person can not believe in god, but still believe that as an objective feature of the world, killing is morally wrong (and evil) based off of utilitarian principles. The world is a better place (as defined by the majority of humans - as in a democracy - rather than a single godly being - as in a dictatorship (sic)). Here though, objectivity is reduced down in a way that can be problematic. Some of my friends argue semantics here, but it still equates to objectivity (though only in a tangible sense). 2. You can also use the concepts of good and evil under a subjective moral view. These views tend to be more incline with social contractarianism, but essentially we all agree to moral dos and don'ts (in a similar manner as to rule/law agreement) and just hold those standards to a higher regard. From the get go, your argument is flawed, as it commits the straw man fallacy. You are defining the position in a certain way (by assuming) that allows you to easily dismantle and disprove it based on literary definitions.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              4 Replies
                              • There are evil people everywhere despite the religion they follow. Its not the religion that effects if you are good or bad but your moral compass.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              • I shouldn't have to be religious to know the Joker is a bad guy when he does "evil" shit.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              You are not allowed to view this content.
                              ;
                              preload icon
                              preload icon
                              preload icon