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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
Edited by KAGEHOSHI: 12/30/2015 12:02:49 AM
12

The Final Shape of Darkness

Since I began my study of the Books of Sorrow, a certain question has persisted in me about the nature of The Final shape—the Hive's ultimate goal of a perfect self-sufficient universe free of weakness for which they exterminate weak life to reach. Oryx describes the Final Shape thus. [quote]And what is that final shape? It is a fire without fuel, burning forever, killing death, asking a question that is its own answer, entirely itself. That is what we must become. (Verse 3:3 — fire without fuel)[/quote] How do the Hive intend to become it? and what does it even mean to become it? Another passage suggests that the Deep, which we know is the Darkness (Verse 5:7), is the Final Shape. [quote]“Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful final shape [...]" (Verse 3:8 — King of Shapes)[/quote] If the Final Shape is the Darkness, why does it need a ruthless unstoppable species (current candidate: the Hive) to purge the universe of weakness to allow for it's formation if it (Final Shape/Darkness) already exist? The Darkness itself has attacked Earth and other worlds before this (Verse 4:8), so it must already exist. Secondly, how does the Hive intend to become the Final Shape if the Final shape is already the Darkness? Let us examine what else we know. [b]WHAT WE KNOW[/b] [b]1) The Darkness is involved as the key piece of the Final Shape, or is meant to become the Final Shape, but it is not there yet. It needs living things to help it achieve the true Final Shape.[/b] - The worms said this: [quote]"We exist to help the universe achieve its terminal, self-forging glory." (Verse 2:1 — Conquerors)[/quote] * This terminal self-forging glory is the Final Shape. [b]2) The Darkness possesses living things.[/b] - The Darkness possessed Golgoroth: [quote]He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying: I can see you in the sky. You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you. And it arrived, the Deep Itself. (Verse 4:1 — battle made waves)[/quote] - The Darkness possesses the Vex [quote]I believe the three Axis Minds found in proximity to the abomination were Vex machines built to serve as vessels for this power: a way to extend its reach across space and time, binding it to the Vex, and the Vex to it. If they had succeeded, I cannot begin to guess what horrors they would have unleashed. Attend carefully. There is cause for hope. When endangered, the abomination activated these vessels and defended itself.[/quote] * If there is any doubt that the Heart was a piece of the Darkness, read this text is attached to the Black Garden quest: [quote]"We got the Eye. We found the Gate. We charged the Eye. And Ikora gave us her blessing. For what that's worth. Nothing left but to face the Darkness at the heart of the Garden. I'm with you, Guardian. All the way down." - Ghost[/quote] - The Darkness is the power that possesses the Taken [quote]Oryx wields this power. But Oryx did not make it. We face the same flower we met in the Black Garden. (The Taken)[/quote] * We also know from the Books of Sorrow reveals that the power to Take if of the Darkness/Deep (Verse 3:8). [b]3) The Darkness requires a winner.[/b] - The Hive, a species that follows the Darkness, are driven by Sword Logic. Secondly, Sword Logic is also a sort of paracausal (or "magic") progression system fueled by killing in which the amount of bloodshed you cause determines your power. Both the philosophical and paracausal aspects of Sword Logic drive the user to brutal competition to win the universe, and to exterminate weaker life. The Sword Logic is reinforced by their philosophy of endless brutal competition where they seek to be the last form of life. If something dies, then to the Hive, it proof that they were not worthy of being alive. If something continues to exist, then it means that they are indeed worthy of existence. * The paracausal powers granted by Sword Logic are shown in Verse 2:6 when Oryx's worm explains that by killing 100 of his children, he learn to warp the universe. Verse 3:1 explains how when they are powered by enough death, it allows them to cut holes into space itself. On the philosophical side, Verse 3:3, Verse 4:0, Verse 4:2, Verse 5:2, and more illustrate their views on survival deciding one's right to exist. - The Vex, another species that follows the Darkness, are driven by a desire to dominate all of existence to such a state that they rule every timeline and become a law of the universe. Like the Hive, they are driven to "win." [quote]Meanwhile, Oryx brooded on the Vex. “I’ve met a worthy rival,” he said. “They want to exist forever, just as I do. But I don’t understand them.” (Verse 4:10 — An Emperor For All Outcomes)[/quote] [quote]If physics is a set of rules that the cosmos uses to calculate itself, perhaps the Vex seek to worm their way into these calculations: to become a law of reality, inseparable from existence. A virus in the system. Perhaps Atheon was the centerpiece of this project, a command nexus that unified efforts across time. (Atheon, Time's Conflux)[/quote] [b]4) The Darkness wants to remold the universe into a perfect state.[/b] - The Worms, which are agents of the Darkness/Deep, teach the Hive of the Final Shape, and how to help the universe achieve it. The first quote I posted in the thread describes the perfect state that is the Final Shape the Hive and the Darkness seeks. The universe is not this perfect deathless thing described by the Hive, at least not yet. As Oryx's worm points out, entropy is grave issue keeping the universe from achieving it's Final Shape. [quote]Our universe gutters down towards cold entropy. (Verse 2:7 — The Weakness Verse) [/quote] It can therefore be concluded that the universe itself must be changed, because simply destroying unworthy life will not stop entropy. [b]CONCLUSION[/b] The Final Shape is a trinity of the Darkness, one remaining victorious civilization, and changing the universe itself. As explained earlier, the Darkness can possess living things, so the victorious ruthless civilization will likely act as a conduit for the Darkness—this is further reinforced by a passage in the Books of Sorrow. [quote]These rules are impediments to the great work. The work of building a perfect, undying creation, a civilization everlasting. Something that cannot end. (Verse 2:7 — The Weakness Verse)[/quote] The ability to remake existence is mentioned, a power that is necessary for changing the universe. [quote]The worth of a thing can be determined only by one beautiful arbiter — that thing’s ability to exist, to go on existing, [b]to remake existence to suit its survival. (Verse 2:7 — The Weakness Verse)[/b][/quote] [b]DUALITY OF SHAPES[/b] In [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/177574612/0/0]another post of mine, I discussed the concept of shapes as they relate to the Hive[/url]. They possess both a physicality and an intangibility; perhaps in some other world beyond the veil. Intangible concepts like death can be manipulated, moved, and used like physical objects. If this is the case for the Final Shape, then it must have a dual-nature of well. a) Physical: the paracausal power of the Darkness coursing through a ruthless final civilization that has restructured the universe itself. b) Intangible: I can only speculate about the intangible nature of the Final Shape, but I would say that it is finality, eternity, and perfection. [b]For more theories by me, I refer you to the [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/183288968/0/0]Collected Treatises of The Warlock KAGEHOSHI[/url].[/b]

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  • I'm just curious. U say that the worms r direct agents of the darkness and that part of the darkness's goal is to reach a universe in which entropy is gone and the victorious civilization remains. But doesn't this go against the nature of the worms. When fighting the Harmony, the hive almost die because their worms are no longer being fed and r beginning to feast on the hive. So if their is no entropy in the universe because the hive have risen as the victorious civilization, doesn't that mean that the hive will die out from the inability to feed their worms. If the hive die, then no civilization is left for the darkness to merge with. Does this mean that the darkness's true goal is for IT to be the only remaing living being in the universe. If their is nothing to oppose it and nothing to kill it, it becomes the perfect being because it used its worms to decimate all life in the universe, the hive and all other life.

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    • Edited by A Rising Wind: 5/3/2016 1:54:23 PM
      A little late to this thread, but wouldn't it make sense that the final shape the darkness seeks to achieve is a singularity? A black hole containing all the mass of the universe in a single point. No entropy left or life creating disorder. Just a cold empty space with the hive dwelling in their throne worlds outside of the universe for eternity. That's how I've always interpreted the final shape. The end conclusion. All the darkness is trying to do is expedite the process. It feels all the traveler is doing is artificially extending the eventual outcome by creating life, which is unsustainable. Eventually stars burn out, life ends, and the darkness wins in the end. This is why the darkness sees the light as futile and pointless. It is temporary resistance to the ultimate conclusion. So the darkness raises an army (Hive) to help speed up the results.

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      • This is a game, 100% fiction. It scares me that you cannot perceive what is real and what is fake.[spoiler]And if you're RPing, I feel like a f*cking idiot.[/spoiler]

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        • The Darkness final form is a big sparrow that cost silver to defeat.

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        • Bump for later?

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          • [ all of this is IMHO ] The Darkness is, at its very core, a singular thing. A singular emotion. A childish emotion. The most basic of childish fears, and also the most lasting, most brutal, and the one holding the most power. It is thus: [i] I do not wish to die.[/i] The Darkness is, at its most secret heart, the fear of non-existence. The Darkness seeks to survive for all time, no matter what final form that survival will take. In the Vex, it seeks to spread itself thoughout Time, being every-where, every-when. It seeks to transcend the end of the Universe by being present in all possible universes at all possible times. It seeks to write itself into the foundation of reality, so that one is the other. In the Hive, it seeks to reshape the universe via the power of faith, fueled by death. Consume the weakness, strengthen the strong, re-make reality in its own image though its agents. In this way it seeks to turn Entropy into just another shape, one which can be remade in the way it desires. The Cabal are another form of this childish fear: bullies. Dominate reality via strength; physical strength, the strength of the Fist. Dominate everything, stand at the highest peak of the highest mountain and carving its existence in all which stands below, remaking into the agents of its will. Harness weakness, making it serve strength. The Fallen are not truly agents of Darkness, not as we know them. The Eliksni were once agents of the Traveler's Light., but were consumed by the Whirlwind, much like the Sundering of the Golden Age. The Fallen seek to reclaim their lost glory, but are splintered into feuding Houses and have turned to piracy to survive. Scavengers peeking out at the sun of their former greatness; and nothing more.

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            • First, I want to congratulate you on delving into the Deep like you did. Second, I see the story as a battle between Light (the Sky) and Dark (the Deep). The two opposing forces are trying to shape the universe into a final shape. The Sky attempts Order through Golden Age utopia. The Deep attempts Chaos via dystopian genocide. Their agents? The Sky has the Traveler, the Deep has the Worms (whom employ the Hive). We know that the Traveler visited many worlds bringing Golden Ages, but it is only on Earth that it raised Guardians. The power of the Deep feeds off of Light, and even transforms it (all lower Hive tribute the Light they consume to higher ascendants until it finally reaches Oryx and his sisters to tithe to the worms). So here is the kicker: Guardians are the Light equivalent of Taken. Just my theory.

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              • We are thinking of the darkness by our laws and what we understand in our universe. This is a force with power so immense, we can't even begin to comprehend it. Hell, it might not even live in our dimension !!!! Maybe it can communicate through multiple dimensions ! The hive, vex, fallen and cabal are all ways in which the darkness can affect our dimension.

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              • Edited by michael: 12/18/2015 7:02:31 AM
                Guardians are the final shape, and humanity the victorious civilization. We are killing everything in site, and remaking the universe to our liking. Guardians can almost live forever. Remember, we were brought back to life by our ghosts, and are brought back every time we "die". Our golden age spread throughout the galaxy, and if real human history is any indication as to what we did when we were colonizing other worlds, maybe we are the darkness.

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                • This proves we are the darkness... *read the whole thing you'll understand.*

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                • Edited by Ruin Tree: 12/18/2015 6:36:39 AM
                  This post needs some love. Bump

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                • Edited by Walrus Walter: 12/17/2015 11:51:18 PM
                  Nice Theory, but I would also like to add this: These Vex are not allies with the darkness. They are not allies with the hive or any of our enemies. Nor are they enemies with us. Their only purpose is to do things in that are most favorable for themselves. The only reason they follow the darkness is so they can be as powerful as the hive. The vex cannot understand the light nor dark. They use us. When the taken enter the vault, they release Praedyth to get our attention, for us to enter the vault and remove the dark festering within. They worship the darkness because they want to beat the hive. They want to become as strong as the hive. By their purpose of weaving themselves into the universe, they want to dominate all dark and light

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