Admittedly I didn't read the whole post, but believe I have a good grasp of it, since it's been repeated time and again.
It won't fly. It just won't.
Any and all concepts that leave even the tiniest room for player exclusion, will generally not gain any traction whatsoever. Whether it's the 1st, 5th, or 500th time asking.
"But it's to check for DPS and builds, to see who needs improvement"
I get it, but you're not everyone. Nor can you account for every little "arsenic" of a player with "bad intentions/leadership" to others. Get my drift?
A better suggestion is to ask for a proper "training room" (remember the Tribute Hall - Season of Opulence.) Ask for something like that. This solves more problems and has more long-term benefits.
Good intentions, but bad suggestion.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
English
-
Edited by Maggie Valley Champ 2016: 3/14/2022 5:48:27 PMSo you think wipes that show boss damage and encounter points is ok? You’ve never seen a wipe where there’s 2-3 people not carrying their weight and never immediately thought who needs to step it up? How is that worse than showing a cleared encounter post game stat split? I’m sure there are people who will talk crap regardless of a clear or failed attempt based on the findings, but in general I truly believe it’s massively less likely for anyone to care or even say something to lower dps teammates on a clear.
-
[quote]So you think wipes that show boss damage and encounter points is ok?[/quote] I'd rather it not be in place, since there's an HP bar for the boss. But that's just preference. [quote]You’ve never seen a wipe where there’s 2-3 people not carrying their weight and never immediately thought who needs to step it up?[/quote] Circumstantial, but most of the time? No. Prior to a boss encounter, roles/loadouts tend to be assigned and discussed anyways. So if someone is really watching numbers, then that person should know better on whether or not person B, C, D can even reach that damage number. [quote]How is that worse than showing a cleared encounter post game stat split? I’m sure there are people who will talk crap regardless of a clear or failed attempt based on the findings, but in general I truly believe it’s massively less likely for anyone to care or even say something to lower dps teammates on a clear.[/quote] Well the only take on that, would be: "The boss is dead, so why do we need to see numbers?" Just because it's seen on other activities doesn't really justify it in my opinion. I just don't think it's needed either way. Doesn't mean the idea suggested isn't a bad one. I just think it can be re-routed differently to something more interactive, since as is, Bungie isn't going to touch this. This coming from previous times the topic has been brought up, and nothing has been done. It's been ongoing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
Yea I agree that it won’t change. I just don’t agree with the counter point of toxicity and pre-encounter strategy being “enough” of a reason to not have it
-
[quote]Any and all concepts that leave even the tiniest room for player exclusion, will generally not gain any traction whatsoever. Whether it's the 1st, 5th, or 500th time asking. "But it's to check for DPS and builds, to see who needs improvement" I get it, but you're not everyone. Nor can you account for every little "arsenic" of a player with "bad intentions/leadership" to others. Get my drift?[/quote] This reply makes no sense whatsoever considering we already HAVE the dps numbers when a team wipes which is where said team would be trying to figure out who needs to change thier loadout... Op is asking for the numbers after a [u]successful[/u] run as well - where there is no need to "check dps to see who needs improvement" as the raid is done...
-
Said the same thing without seeing your reply lol Cheers
-
I get what is being asked for but the point still stands, whether you agree or not. We cannot account for folks with bad intentions. Or what some folks may say/do to other players after the fact. The "what if" here, is to eliminate any potential toxicity between other players if it can be helped. Especially if endgame content is involved which is what Bungie guns for us to replay. Good intentions or not on the suggestion and purpose, I already acknowledged the point, by saying it won't work as is. I also adding that this can be incorporated into a better sounding idea. Without taking on that risk mentioned above. The big picture [i]needs[/i] to be looked for this. Not saying it shouldn't happen at all. It's a good idea. But this doesn't look like a good way to do this, in my opinion. It can be done better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
So long as failed encounter numbers are shown, this argument is bunk. If someone is going to be kicked for low damage, it’ll be after a wipe when the numbers are shown. Your argument only really stands up if you’re arguing for all DPS charts to be removed.
-
Edited by Xero: 3/15/2022 5:07:34 PM[quote]So long as failed encounter numbers are shown, this argument is bunk.[/quote] Precisely, and I understand this potential flaw. Hence my point of preference in another post. Stating I'd rather it not be in place at all. The team either kills the boss or they don't. Numbers don't lie, sure. But there's more to this picture than just numbers alone. [quote]If someone is going to be kicked for low damage, it’ll be after a wipe when the numbers are shown.[/quote] This holds truth, be we can't speak for everyone. The question to ponder is: "If no numbers were shown, would it matter, at that point?" It's not even a simple yes or no question as much as one would like to think. No one can even strike a guess and try to stand by it confidentially since there is no "answer". It individually varies from person to person. Circumstance to circumstance. Team to team. Know what I mean? This was also why I made a "Training Room" suggestion with reference to the Tribute Hall as an alternative idea, to the suggestion. I don't want the value of those numbers, to some, to be flat out taken away. But at the same time, if something hasn't been given after being asked time and again, one doesn't just repeat the same question with more demand. Doesn't solve anything. Best to redirect the question and think of alternative solutions. Was why I was being direct saying it just won't fly. The idea I mentioned would be a more "engaging" middle ground for most, I'd imagine, and has potential to have multiple uses. [quote]Your argument only really stands up if you’re arguing for all DPS charts to be removed.[/quote] Mhm. That's correct. Refer back to the first point. Still stands. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
By this logic players shouldn't be able to emote as they might emote on others, they shouldn't be able to crouch due to tebagging or shoot as they might shoot at enemy bodies, if "we cannot account for bad intentions" then half the features in this game need to be removed. What bad intentions are there behind seeing the dps of a [u]successful[/u] run? Players might message the lfg they just completed the raid with to tell them how bad thier dps was? After a successful boss kill? The completed run is over - seeing as we have the dps screen for [u]failed[/u] runs where people are far more likely to be toxic against a badly performing player why wouldn't we have one for successful runs where there is far lower a chance of that happening?
-
[quote]By this logic players shouldn't be able to emote as they might emote on others, they shouldn't be able to crouch due to tebagging or shoot as they might shoot at enemy bodies, if "we cannot account for bad intentions" then half the features in this game need to be removed.[/quote] Now don't go over exaggerating the idea. That's not the point. The idea was to point that it exists, and to that effect, and given Bungie's track record, this idea will be likely to not happen. [quote]What bad intentions are there behind seeing the dps of a [u]successful[/u] run? Players might message the lfg they just completed the raid with to tell them how bad their dps was?[/quote] Well, you never know who you pair up with. So it varies. [quote]After a successful boss kill? The completed run is over - seeing as we have the dps screen for [u]failed[/u] runs where people are far more likely to be toxic against a badly performing player, why wouldn't we have one for successful runs where there is far lower a chance of that happening?[/quote] Well the simple answer is "to see the numbers", but you and I both know that won't always be the case. Preferably, I'd rather not see any numbers (mentioned above), as there's a giant HP bar for the boss so the team knows when it's dead, or close to it. The boss is dead, mission accomplished. In my mind, I don't care about the damage numbers on the boss at that point, so if anything it strikes another reason to not bother with this. Never was opposed to the idea, I just don't think Bungie will ever put this in. Unless it gets re-routed a different way. Hence the suggestion in the first post. See where this is going? The main idea is fine, but I don't see a realistic reason that it'll be put in. Preference or not. The counter point I gave obviously wasn't the greatest one, but I figured I'd start there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯