[quote]You Can't Patch Players
In late September, Bungie closed the Loot Cave for business. They changed the spawn timer on the enemies in the cave, making it much more difficult to stand outside and gain experience and loot. It was the end of an era.
Or, well, no it wasn't. Shortly after that, players discovered a new loot cave. Bungie tweaked that one too, but a narrative had been established:
Players come up with an exploit.
Bungie patches it.
Players find a new exploit.
Soon, most players had moved on from Loot Caves to cheesing the weekly nightfall strikes and the raids, two much more complicated activities that, while difficult to complete, offered much better and more consistent rewards.
Like all cheese, Destiny's exploits come with an expiration date. For a time, it was possible to stand together on a podium and easily wipe out the Templar mid-boss of the Vault of Glass. Then Bungie patched the game to make that area out of bounds. After that, people figured out how to knock the Templar off of his platform using grenades. Eventually, Bungie patched that, too.
It was possible to do something similar to the raid's final boss Atheon, comically knocking the big dumb lunk off of a cliff with grenades. Then Bungie patched that. Players figured out how to arrange themselves into "home" and "away" teams for the Atheon battle—this approach wasn't even a cheese, we just thought it was how the battle was supposed to go—but Bungie patched that, too. These days, players can easily cheese the majority of the game's strikes and entire sections of Crota's End. Surely Bungie will patch all those, too.
Here's the thing, though: when it comes down to it, you can't patch players. We are talking about people who not only can pull something like throwing a boss of a cliff, they can also figure out that something like that is possible in the first place. Thanks largely to communities like the superb Destiny subreddit, any player can easily find videos and guides to help them exploit the game. Bungie never stood a chance.
[b]The more I play, the more it seems like the studio's determination to shut down players' unsanctioned fun is misguided. It also feels oddly insecure, like Bungie isn't confident that their game is fun enough on its own, that they worry that if players are able to play it "wrong," to exploit loopholes to get better gear, that they'll eventually max out their inventory and quit altogether.[/b]
That is doubtless true for some players, but actually I haven't found it to be true for me. Yes, part of what drives me to keep playing is that lizard-brain thing where you just really want the rocket launcher that Crota drops and you still haven't beaten him with your hunter this week. But most of what keeps me playing are the very strengths that Bungie would claim Destiny embodies: I keep playing because I'm having fun and because I like hanging out with my teammates.
[b]The most frustrating thing about all of this is that while Bungie scrambles to undo the work of Destiny's most industrious cheesers, they're leaving a number of actual, widespread problems unaddressed. For example:
For months now, there's been a bug where any armor that increases your heavy ammo capacity causes you to lose precious heavy ammo every time you respawn. It's been unpatched for ages and is maddening.3132
When fighting Crota, there is a bug that causes the sword—a vital weapon—to simply disappear for no reason.
There's another Crota bug that causes him to leap down from his platform and follow you onto the ground, killing your team about as quickly as an indestructible god would. More than once, that bug or the one before it, caused us to fail in an otherwise flawless battle. I tell you what, nothing gets me reaching for my LAN cable faster than a shitty bug undoing a flawless run against Crota.
For at least a couple of months, the audio during the templar battle in the Vault of Glass would cut out. Bungie repeatedly patched and removed exploits from that battle, and yet the audio glitch remained. 3334
Plenty of other small bugs linger as well: chat cuts out in loading screens, Atheon's deadly imprisoning globes can sometimes follow you through his time-portals, you can get two identical items in the same drop in the Vault of Glass, exotic items won in the Vault lack the upgrades given to exotics everywhere else, the stats page at the end of missions doesn't actually seem to track your stats correctly, and on, and on.[/b]
Bungie appears more concerned with squashing creative player exploits than they are with making sure their game works properly. Granted, there's an argument that making the game work properly involves the removal of exploits. But eventually Bungie is going to have to acquiesce to the fact that every time they patch a cheese, a new cheese will rise to take its place. Hopefully they'll begin to reprioritize and focus on making sure the game works well for those who don't want to farm exploits.[/quote]
Taken from the Kotaku 4 month later review.
You see Bungie, here's the thing. You can fix this sort of thing all you like, but all players will do is find another way to cheese, glitch and otherwise break your game. You need to focus on the numerous flaws with your game, add things and the like rather then attempt to fix people cheesing and the like, because all the time the game does not feel rewarding, all the time it feels like we are working AGIANST you, means players will keep looking for these exploits.
And just to clarify, I enjoy this game. But if you spent time MAKING IT BETTER rather then trying to shut down the ways people break your game, it could be so much more.
I recall you saying Destiny can be played your way. It seems more and more like it's Bungies way.
EDIT: The moment the game is patched to fix the cheeses, new Crota's End cheeses are found. Point Proven: YOU CAN'T PATCH PLAYERS
[b]And to clarify: I'm not trying to justify cheesing or cheating or whatever you want to call it.[/b] I'm saying Bungie priorities should be improving the rest of/features of the game and fixing bugs that affect gameplay in a more negative way..
English
#Destiny
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4 답변I can't believe you are defending blatant exploits, there are still lot of creative tactics to beat raids without obvious cheats.
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2 답변i completely agree. Bungie should be having competitions to see who can come up with the most creative way to do stuff. Not shutting down people who figure it out. They make blog posts and even do interviews with the first team to beat the raid. How about doing the same with the first person to figure out the push method for the templar, or the guy who solo'd crota's end. GTA lets you do whatever you want. Destiny would be much better if it did the same. They patched sparrow surfing. WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DID THEY PATCH IT!! It didn't hurt anyone and it was a blast to do. Leave us alone bunge, go fix game breaking bugs.
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3 답변[i]I wish they could patch players..Just reading some these moronic gamer tags on Xbox makes me want to have an anurism, I wish everyone was an edge master like me.[/i]
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You want to know how to make the nightfalls weeklies and raids better? Add more in depth mechanics to them to require teamwork and coordination instead of shooting at a bullet sponge. Add more things like the gorgon maze, jumping puzzle, using a sword to kill monsters type things to raids. Add more actual boss fights. (1 boss in crotas end lol, hopefully ir yut becomes a real boss in hard) that's how you make the raids fun. Not letting people skip encounters if they choose. Guess what? Then even more of the people who cheese won't be able to do it The game is already fun. People cheese it because they can't do the mechanics effectively. You can argue all you want that it's faster but considering crotas end takes a skilled team less than 30 min ( very fast being from 18-23min legit) and most cheesing teams take at least that the "shorter way" should be the proper way. And if you have so little time to spare that you can't find a group then why are you on destiny at all? If your rl issues are that pressing then deal with them first. If you don't like playing with people, why do you want to play a coop game? There's plenty to do solo but it's a coop game, if you want to do coop content you need a team.... I have no issue with people cheesing the raid but lets be honest about why they do it. I've cheesed the templar to get the extra chest because my team is rarely on at the same time and it's tough with randoms so its not like ive never done it.
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I'm with this guy, I'm not apposed to breaking a game and cheesing because it really does feel like i have to fight the game more than the enemies in the game. This Kotaku review should be seriously reviewed by the Devs at Bungie.
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11 답변All this Bungie design reminds me of when I was designing my own D&D variant system. I'll never forget when one of my players gave me a play by play on what he was going to do... "OK, so I'm going to aim my bow and shoot the ceiling chandelier, in an attempt to make it fall on the boss." "You can't do that..." I said, regrettably . I remember the sheer disappointment he had written across his face when I took all control away from him. It was like siphoning all fun out of the entire experience. "Oh... I guess I'll just shot the bow..." He said in disappointment as he rolled the 20 sided. After that I learned that it's more fun to work with the player then against them. I decided to remove all restrictions and not only did my players have more fun but I did as well in the end! Bungie man, stop running a business and start designing a game.
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12 답변I think you should all stop crying because you can't do glitches in Crota's End and just play the game right. What is the fun in cheating in a game? If you don't have time for a raid, there are checkpoints for you to come back to anytime. You clearly have enough time to level your character to 30+ so you clearly have time during the week to finish. If you have beaten already before legit, just play it again like every other player would. It's not working smarter not faster, it just being lazy and inconsiderate because there are other players out there like me who play the game they way it's supposed to be played: three different characters that have not been deleted once, kill everything in strikes, play nightfalls and raids legit, etc.Its not the Bungie doesn't want you to play the game you want to, it just isn't fair to the players who play legit who get the same rewards as a player who put no work or effort because he did a stupid exploit. Bungie can't fix crucial things because they are too preoccupied trying to fix exploits that players are using to ruin the game for others.
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3 답변People don't understand that content development and cheese/glitch fixes are handled by different people. Just because they get rid of cheese doesn't mean they stop working on everything else to get it done. Stop trying to justify shit
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As someone that's played since the alpha I have to admit that I'm more disappointed at the way bungie has handled fixing the "cheeses". I'm glad they're getting fixed and all, especially the network one on Crota, but there are different bugs that could be handled first. For example, pushing Templar/Atheon was fixed (don't know why because If guardians can fall off those cliffs and die then they should too) before the Praetorian health glitch was fixed (serious question: was that ever announced as fixed?). I understand wanting the whole fireteam to work together and communicate to get the objective done (which happens whether you decided to push or not with synchronizing throwing solar grenades or cheesing the bridge in CE) but what's the point if there are still bugs that can cause a team to wipe? Just last night running VoG hard some kind of teleport bug happened during Atheon fight that only sent 1 person and left a shield outside of the portal while spawning 1 inside causing us to wipe due to oracles. Or when we lost a sword run on crota because the sword fell through the map or after when took his shield down and as soon as his knee hit the ground he stood back and killed the sword guy. Why put off fixing the stuff that hurts gameplay to fix stuff that doesn't? Sometimes I feel like we all payed $70 to get into some kind of prolonged beta and Destiny 2 is gonna be what was originally promised at E3...trading and all. Until that time I'll probably still continue to support and bungie and the development of Destiny, i just wish they would take some time (maybe the 6 months between HoW and Comet) and make a list of all known bugs/glitches (gamebreaking and cheeses) and prioritize them and do a CBA to determine what really needs to be fixed right away and what can wait or be left alone.
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2 답변작성자: AnAverageGamer 1/9/2015 9:52:19 PMYeah, I don't agree with most of that article. I absolutely do not want cheap exploits to stop being patched. When I can't find a raid group who actually wants to play the raid correctly, there's a problem. I absolutely think the ammo bug needs to be fixed too (the others listed there are either fixed, workarounds exist, or are nonissues). That said, that doesn't mean I think it's right that non-exploits go unpatched, I think they absolutely should be fixed, I just want to see the game played properly before other issues are fixed. I'm sure now that more and more are experiencing the ammo bug, and more are complaining about it, it will soon be addressed too.
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3 답변If you pay $$ for a game, any game, you should be able to play how you want. Within the bounds of TOS of course. I think I remember Bungie saying "You're not supposed to play the game this way" or something to that effect when they shut down the cave. I could be wrong though. But really though... why cant you play a certain way if you choose?
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33 답변To all those that for some reason care about how others play and condemn cheesing....mind your own business. If you are not providing the game for me, then you have no say in how I choose to play. Sorry you are too dim witted to find exploits and cheeses. The fact you cannot think outside the box and challenge developers is your problem. Once I've done something legit a time or two, I am bored and want to find new ways to beat missions ect. And when I do, I am going to pass it on. Sorry you're too busy being a Bungie robot to figure out inventive ways to do the damn strikes, weekly events, and Raids for the umteenth time. If there was better content, I would not have time to find cheese. But since I have to do the same crap over and over and over and over again, of course I'm going to look for new ways to do it. If only to keep the game interesting while I'm grinding away at 25 strikes for an exotic bounty ect.. If I can find a way to get the Nightfall, Weekly, and Raid done in short order, I'm going to do it. And I give two shits about what you think about my gameplay. Call me a cheater? I call you a fanboy robot with no imagination or ability to think for yourself. If Bungie doesn't tell you how it supposed to be done, you are lost. Destiny is not my job, it's my entertainment and I am going to choose how Destiny entertains me, and not worry about what you dullards who are nothing but Bungie slaves think about it.