[quote]You Can't Patch Players
In late September, Bungie closed the Loot Cave for business. They changed the spawn timer on the enemies in the cave, making it much more difficult to stand outside and gain experience and loot. It was the end of an era.
Or, well, no it wasn't. Shortly after that, players discovered a new loot cave. Bungie tweaked that one too, but a narrative had been established:
Players come up with an exploit.
Bungie patches it.
Players find a new exploit.
Soon, most players had moved on from Loot Caves to cheesing the weekly nightfall strikes and the raids, two much more complicated activities that, while difficult to complete, offered much better and more consistent rewards.
Like all cheese, Destiny's exploits come with an expiration date. For a time, it was possible to stand together on a podium and easily wipe out the Templar mid-boss of the Vault of Glass. Then Bungie patched the game to make that area out of bounds. After that, people figured out how to knock the Templar off of his platform using grenades. Eventually, Bungie patched that, too.
It was possible to do something similar to the raid's final boss Atheon, comically knocking the big dumb lunk off of a cliff with grenades. Then Bungie patched that. Players figured out how to arrange themselves into "home" and "away" teams for the Atheon battle—this approach wasn't even a cheese, we just thought it was how the battle was supposed to go—but Bungie patched that, too. These days, players can easily cheese the majority of the game's strikes and entire sections of Crota's End. Surely Bungie will patch all those, too.
Here's the thing, though: when it comes down to it, you can't patch players. We are talking about people who not only can pull something like throwing a boss of a cliff, they can also figure out that something like that is possible in the first place. Thanks largely to communities like the superb Destiny subreddit, any player can easily find videos and guides to help them exploit the game. Bungie never stood a chance.
[b]The more I play, the more it seems like the studio's determination to shut down players' unsanctioned fun is misguided. It also feels oddly insecure, like Bungie isn't confident that their game is fun enough on its own, that they worry that if players are able to play it "wrong," to exploit loopholes to get better gear, that they'll eventually max out their inventory and quit altogether.[/b]
That is doubtless true for some players, but actually I haven't found it to be true for me. Yes, part of what drives me to keep playing is that lizard-brain thing where you just really want the rocket launcher that Crota drops and you still haven't beaten him with your hunter this week. But most of what keeps me playing are the very strengths that Bungie would claim Destiny embodies: I keep playing because I'm having fun and because I like hanging out with my teammates.
[b]The most frustrating thing about all of this is that while Bungie scrambles to undo the work of Destiny's most industrious cheesers, they're leaving a number of actual, widespread problems unaddressed. For example:
For months now, there's been a bug where any armor that increases your heavy ammo capacity causes you to lose precious heavy ammo every time you respawn. It's been unpatched for ages and is maddening.3132
When fighting Crota, there is a bug that causes the sword—a vital weapon—to simply disappear for no reason.
There's another Crota bug that causes him to leap down from his platform and follow you onto the ground, killing your team about as quickly as an indestructible god would. More than once, that bug or the one before it, caused us to fail in an otherwise flawless battle. I tell you what, nothing gets me reaching for my LAN cable faster than a shitty bug undoing a flawless run against Crota.
For at least a couple of months, the audio during the templar battle in the Vault of Glass would cut out. Bungie repeatedly patched and removed exploits from that battle, and yet the audio glitch remained. 3334
Plenty of other small bugs linger as well: chat cuts out in loading screens, Atheon's deadly imprisoning globes can sometimes follow you through his time-portals, you can get two identical items in the same drop in the Vault of Glass, exotic items won in the Vault lack the upgrades given to exotics everywhere else, the stats page at the end of missions doesn't actually seem to track your stats correctly, and on, and on.[/b]
Bungie appears more concerned with squashing creative player exploits than they are with making sure their game works properly. Granted, there's an argument that making the game work properly involves the removal of exploits. But eventually Bungie is going to have to acquiesce to the fact that every time they patch a cheese, a new cheese will rise to take its place. Hopefully they'll begin to reprioritize and focus on making sure the game works well for those who don't want to farm exploits.[/quote]
Taken from the Kotaku 4 month later review.
You see Bungie, here's the thing. You can fix this sort of thing all you like, but all players will do is find another way to cheese, glitch and otherwise break your game. You need to focus on the numerous flaws with your game, add things and the like rather then attempt to fix people cheesing and the like, because all the time the game does not feel rewarding, all the time it feels like we are working AGIANST you, means players will keep looking for these exploits.
And just to clarify, I enjoy this game. But if you spent time MAKING IT BETTER rather then trying to shut down the ways people break your game, it could be so much more.
I recall you saying Destiny can be played your way. It seems more and more like it's Bungies way.
EDIT: The moment the game is patched to fix the cheeses, new Crota's End cheeses are found. Point Proven: YOU CAN'T PATCH PLAYERS
[b]And to clarify: I'm not trying to justify cheesing or cheating or whatever you want to call it.[/b] I'm saying Bungie priorities should be improving the rest of/features of the game and fixing bugs that affect gameplay in a more negative way..
English
#Destiny
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The greatest part about Bungie and Destiny is the community and that will ultimately be its destroyer. Why are we asking for such dumb crap. Personally I want a larger variety of gear, a more personal way to customize it (not every max level character looks the same), I want more strikes and rewards. I want a more intricate way to upgrade gear also, anybody play Guildwars? Let's try runes and tomes to customize those modifiers on my gear so I can work for my gear. Let's stop complaining about some of the best aspects of the game because we are trolls. This community killed the VOG and now it has killed Crota's End. Now I don't even want to play it without the Glitching. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed doing it legit. My strategy would be to solo the whole raid on my characters for them rewards (don't lie we all know you wanted them too) and once I completed the only 2 guaranteed decent weekly rewards I would repeat it the legitimate way for fun. But now the legitimate way just seems like a task. Before it was the challenge to do it that was fun on its own, that how games used to be. And now they force you to sit and wait while people go afk to eat, piss, take out garbage or get yelled at by their mothers, just to get the one God damn reward the game offers a week. Idk I love this game or I think I do or at least want to but it just gets ridiculous at some point. The loot system is way flawed but it's not just the loot it's the inventory system. It's almost exactly like COD:AW aka random loot after a match and random gear with not actual benefit. I really just don't care anymore, I'm done.
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We all know what is going to happen Tuesday. Big patch coming to stop the cheesing. Results of this are: Login failure/booted out of the game = Zoo animals are coming..... Patch caused new glitches that now effect every gamer, game broken again. This is why Bungie have delayed the hard raid IMO. Run the normal and see if there are any glitches/cheeses. Fix said cheesing and run again to see what crap has been caused by fixing it. If there are new issues then fix them and so on. Hard raid may not be released for a while yet lol
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They just need to hire the people who figure out exploits to test their game. That way they can patch them before shipping the content, but... it's already too late now. The damage to their reputation is set in stone.
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I've never been a big fan of cheesing in any game really, I found that it took away from the challenge of the game and generally stayed away from playing games online that people used exploits in. Borderlands, dead Island, most recently Diablo being the first that come to mind. Then the week of dB launch hit. I loved, and still do, the first 2/3 of the new raid. The mess that is crota drove me over the edge to "I'm gonna beat him legit, but the second there's a cheese I'm doing it" territory. The mechanics are terrible, the glitches numerous (launch week we counted wipe by unforseen glitch to be 7 out of 10 rounds territory) and reading this last update, which included no mention of known glitch fixes I was very disappointed. My clan and I all agreed, once the encounter was fixed, we would gladly go back to playing fair. Il still be playing the cheese less raid, and enjoying the first parts, but feeling like beating crota was more due to a lucky run and not skill makes me feel like I'm playing defiance.
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My group just 4 mans Vault and the first 3 of Crota because we just dont take it that seriously with PuGs ether bailing or just taking it too serious for our group. With the fixes than good luck to half the group that runs over to the other side. First section of the raid is just annoying while boring. The bridge section has fun mechanics. Third section not intended from the get go to get loot was just shoddy game design while having to shift loot from else where just further shows shoddy game design. Crota was the only thing I see justifying a fix given the bug. All the other bigger issues in the game remain unfixed. This is not a subscription based game. More long term fun and repeat business is to be had when players are having fun rather than mediocre enjoyment from attempts to stretch out content.
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10 답변I'm absolutely neutral on the cheesing methods. I've done both ways and they're equally fun as far as I'm concerned. We play for 'real' most of the time but sometimes what should be a 5-10 minute section drags on for hours on end. I run with a very good team. We're all quite experienced in the raid, we know the terrain, we have specified tasks, and know our jobs. Running the lamps should take about 10 minutes. Period. Most of the time it does. Sometimes though a zillion indestructible thralls come out -or- we all start shooting marshmallows. The lamp-a-pult cheese is an absolute last resort and is rarely used/needed. The bridge isn't too bad. Cheese vs Legit, I don't care. I guess I can't 'blade dance' all the way across solo anymore with the new patch? That's ok I suppose. Need to find a new way to solo it I suppose. Ir-Yut CANT be cheesed (and that fight SUCKS btw....). Crota....cheese isn't much easier than legit. There is more or less a safe(ish) zone for every nightfall. Even using them correctly the nightfall can go south quick. If these go away I'm going to be pissed. Unloading the required quarter of a million bullets into Rockets McDickface (or Cervix Prime, Nexus, Whoregoth, Omnidrool, etc) without a place or two to hide will go from difficult to absolutely impossible.
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3 답변Wait, losing heavy ammo is a glitch? Huh. All this time I figured it was just a penalty for dying. Those bastards.
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most of the glitches in the vog turned up right after they patched atheon,,, one time we had him beat legit about 8 separate times in the same raid, just to be ^&%&#$ over by glitches,. this happened so much you would have to quit the game to try reset all the glitches,.. are you sure you know what your doing bungie,..?? guess we'll find out tuesday, whether or not they 'fixed' or 'F$#^&#' the new raid,.. lmao
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7 답변xD Bungie fixes the raid so people can actually enjoy the content instead of bypassing it, and the forum erupts in cries of agony. "Fix other things" No, fix the cheeses. They ruin the experience and take away the legitimacy of the tasks.
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2 답변What a stupid premise "cheesing is just people having fun" FALSE cheesing is not fun its ez people usually choose easy.
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작성자: Redbeard 1/10/2015 4:03:50 AMIf there were ways to "cheese" in the Crucible, I'd bet "you people" would be bitching your fingers off at Bungie to patch those exploits. An exploit is an exploit. Whether or not it is an exploit of PvE, or an exploit of PvP. It's not the way to properly play the game, and should never be treated as such. It makes sense for Bungie to patch those sort of things so the players play the Raids the proper way, and not the cheating ways.
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Are you kidding? Fixing issues like cheering and the loot cave are 100% justified its practically cheating. You can't let bugs like that go unchecked it undermines the game. Like I'm sorry you have to work for engrams and experience now and can't just sit outside a cave. You can't patch players? Maybe players should stop acting so entitled and rude and it wouldn't even need to be a thought.