[quote]You Can't Patch Players
In late September, Bungie closed the Loot Cave for business. They changed the spawn timer on the enemies in the cave, making it much more difficult to stand outside and gain experience and loot. It was the end of an era.
Or, well, no it wasn't. Shortly after that, players discovered a new loot cave. Bungie tweaked that one too, but a narrative had been established:
Players come up with an exploit.
Bungie patches it.
Players find a new exploit.
Soon, most players had moved on from Loot Caves to cheesing the weekly nightfall strikes and the raids, two much more complicated activities that, while difficult to complete, offered much better and more consistent rewards.
Like all cheese, Destiny's exploits come with an expiration date. For a time, it was possible to stand together on a podium and easily wipe out the Templar mid-boss of the Vault of Glass. Then Bungie patched the game to make that area out of bounds. After that, people figured out how to knock the Templar off of his platform using grenades. Eventually, Bungie patched that, too.
It was possible to do something similar to the raid's final boss Atheon, comically knocking the big dumb lunk off of a cliff with grenades. Then Bungie patched that. Players figured out how to arrange themselves into "home" and "away" teams for the Atheon battle—this approach wasn't even a cheese, we just thought it was how the battle was supposed to go—but Bungie patched that, too. These days, players can easily cheese the majority of the game's strikes and entire sections of Crota's End. Surely Bungie will patch all those, too.
Here's the thing, though: when it comes down to it, you can't patch players. We are talking about people who not only can pull something like throwing a boss of a cliff, they can also figure out that something like that is possible in the first place. Thanks largely to communities like the superb Destiny subreddit, any player can easily find videos and guides to help them exploit the game. Bungie never stood a chance.
[b]The more I play, the more it seems like the studio's determination to shut down players' unsanctioned fun is misguided. It also feels oddly insecure, like Bungie isn't confident that their game is fun enough on its own, that they worry that if players are able to play it "wrong," to exploit loopholes to get better gear, that they'll eventually max out their inventory and quit altogether.[/b]
That is doubtless true for some players, but actually I haven't found it to be true for me. Yes, part of what drives me to keep playing is that lizard-brain thing where you just really want the rocket launcher that Crota drops and you still haven't beaten him with your hunter this week. But most of what keeps me playing are the very strengths that Bungie would claim Destiny embodies: I keep playing because I'm having fun and because I like hanging out with my teammates.
[b]The most frustrating thing about all of this is that while Bungie scrambles to undo the work of Destiny's most industrious cheesers, they're leaving a number of actual, widespread problems unaddressed. For example:
For months now, there's been a bug where any armor that increases your heavy ammo capacity causes you to lose precious heavy ammo every time you respawn. It's been unpatched for ages and is maddening.3132
When fighting Crota, there is a bug that causes the sword—a vital weapon—to simply disappear for no reason.
There's another Crota bug that causes him to leap down from his platform and follow you onto the ground, killing your team about as quickly as an indestructible god would. More than once, that bug or the one before it, caused us to fail in an otherwise flawless battle. I tell you what, nothing gets me reaching for my LAN cable faster than a shitty bug undoing a flawless run against Crota.
For at least a couple of months, the audio during the templar battle in the Vault of Glass would cut out. Bungie repeatedly patched and removed exploits from that battle, and yet the audio glitch remained. 3334
Plenty of other small bugs linger as well: chat cuts out in loading screens, Atheon's deadly imprisoning globes can sometimes follow you through his time-portals, you can get two identical items in the same drop in the Vault of Glass, exotic items won in the Vault lack the upgrades given to exotics everywhere else, the stats page at the end of missions doesn't actually seem to track your stats correctly, and on, and on.[/b]
Bungie appears more concerned with squashing creative player exploits than they are with making sure their game works properly. Granted, there's an argument that making the game work properly involves the removal of exploits. But eventually Bungie is going to have to acquiesce to the fact that every time they patch a cheese, a new cheese will rise to take its place. Hopefully they'll begin to reprioritize and focus on making sure the game works well for those who don't want to farm exploits.[/quote]
Taken from the Kotaku 4 month later review.
You see Bungie, here's the thing. You can fix this sort of thing all you like, but all players will do is find another way to cheese, glitch and otherwise break your game. You need to focus on the numerous flaws with your game, add things and the like rather then attempt to fix people cheesing and the like, because all the time the game does not feel rewarding, all the time it feels like we are working AGIANST you, means players will keep looking for these exploits.
And just to clarify, I enjoy this game. But if you spent time MAKING IT BETTER rather then trying to shut down the ways people break your game, it could be so much more.
I recall you saying Destiny can be played your way. It seems more and more like it's Bungies way.
EDIT: The moment the game is patched to fix the cheeses, new Crota's End cheeses are found. Point Proven: YOU CAN'T PATCH PLAYERS
[b]And to clarify: I'm not trying to justify cheesing or cheating or whatever you want to call it.[/b] I'm saying Bungie priorities should be improving the rest of/features of the game and fixing bugs that affect gameplay in a more negative way..
English
#Destiny
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2 답변a lot of this community I think doesn't give a flying -blam!- about the game...they just want better shit for the sake of better shit so they can throw that in other peoples faces. As a owner of every c.o.d. game and 8 yr on and off WOW player its the worst of both worlds. Gear Elitists and K/d Douches united.
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작성자: Spoof 1/10/2015 1:02:16 AMIt's funny how everyone is only concerned with cheesing and not looking at other issues that have been stated. Cheesing was fun. Knocking atheon off was the funniest thing I've ever seen. I've cheesed and done things the legit way, it's all about how much time I have to play that determines which way I beat the boss. But the other issues are more important, like loosing my heavy ammo when I die, talk bout a waste of heavy ammo synth. Or in Templar battle and sound cuts out then I find out my whole team died or the relic holder died. The little things are more important in my opinion than cheesing. You can always patch cheesing afterwards, it really isn't that important especially when Crota can be killed in 60-90 seconds and atheon killed in 1 portal run (on hard). So in my opinion the little things that glitch the game more and make it bad are way more important than the big things that are actually fun and in no way really hurt the game.
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1 답변Lol. Bungie could fix every exploit, bug, glitch, cheat. Also lets say Bungie puts 50 new story missions, 20 new strikes and 5 new raids. People will STILL try and cheese everything....
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1 답변I am a huge Bungie fan. I've loved every Halo game and played them all since day 1 (I even liked Oni). I never complain about anything in this game but I do agree with a lot of what was in that article. It is really annoying when that sword disappears or when one of the other glitches happens. Fix those first, then the exploits.
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I don't have an issue with Bungie fixing exploits to the raids, unfortunately it seems that there are many things that have been pointed out for a long, long time that haven't been addressed yet. Their priorities seem out of whack at times as well. Nerfing weapons done instantly. Buffing weapons, which they admitted needed buffing took months. I think people just want a little consistency in how Bungie does things. As far as the article goes, well I've said it since the Queens Wrath patch, Bungie is a professional game company they should realize by now that people will look for the easiest way to do something, yet they still roll stuff out that gives rise to people taking advantage of poorly executed game design.
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[quote]I recall you saying Destiny can be played your way. It seems more and more like it's Bungies way.[/quote] It's actually Activisions way (they forked the bill) and they tell Bungie what to do and what they can or can't do if they even allow them to have some of their own ideas
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2 답변Heavy ammo synthesis used, but no bullets/rockets gained, with cool down period of 5 minutes. Happened to me 3 times in a row few days ago. Also, explosive rounds that should deal additional dammage split weapons base dammage and add some of it on explosive rounds instead of giving more dammage with explosive rounds. That's an issue they recognised and didn't do anything about it so far.
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LOL we have a cheeser right here...PS the game is actualy bad because of all the cheese so I am kinda happy that they finaly fix that....but they have to change the whole game lol I mean loot system is shit the progress in the game suck no reward for speed running (because you can do only 1 time everything a week)...
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It really gets me when it's so obvious that your fan base is upset with the reward system and the funky glitches that are a freak occurrence with the game, yet we still play on hoping, praying, pleading, cursing and coming back for more punishment. In no way am I attempting to "boycott bungie" but it seems like they only hear what they want to hear. They appear to troll the forums and the community "listening" for ways to "improve" the game, but in all honesty they are merely letting us pay to beta test it! It's a fantastic game, I thoroughly enjoy it, but please Bungie, let us play our own way; at least until you fix the RNG crap. It's completely bogus! There is no reason, NONE, that I should be able to get an [b][i]EXOTIC[/i][/b] weapon out of a chest that any level 27+ could get on their own (soon to be moved to Deathsinger, yay..... -.-) and yet I get nothing from Crota other than a damn shader and 2 energy. I was pretty sure you said the raid drops were fixed in this? How come I can only ever get the gear that I've already gotten? Any why is it that no matter when I raid, I always seem to only get the raid gear piece that matches the exotic piece I'm wearing? Bottom line, increase your weapon/gear drops rates, dramatically! You want a following? Give them what they want! You're concerned people will burn out of the game too fast? Stop making them grind for hours to get no reward! You don't want elitists to have it all and stop playing, make a set of new guns that actually rotate out of cycle every fee days, make it a set list that grows and changes all of the time, you've created countless [i]decent[/i] weapons that are uncommon and rare... they immediately get turned into weapon parts, people don't look at them! The same goes for armor... "oh it has less light, who cares? Class mats..." Try being innovative and let us turn those weapons/gear into legendaries?! The gunsmith is bored out of his skull and the speaker has no life... we are supposed to BECOME LEGEND! Let us!!!! You have a staff that could easily create new weapons/gear in an instant, you have a decent pool already, and bring back some special ones from the in ready built in raid, the previous factions/crucible/vanguard/IB/QW and buff them a bit, give them a new name and change their damage types, swap a few stats and Shazam! Hundreds upon hundreds if technically "new" weapons! Just please dear lord, stop fighting your fans....
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100% agree. And the lantern catapult felt pretty legit to me. Since phalanx can swat me into oblivion. When do we think that will be fixed? Try never! Or a blade dancer goes ham on some thralls and sends me flying off an edge. When will that get changed? Never! You implemented physics for a reason right? So OWN it...
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1 답변Bungie is the dictator, if it's not going how they want it to go they change the game! much like ''the hunger games''. i love the game, but it lacks so so so so so much! if bungie listened to the good ideas from this forums (not the -blam!-ing idea to let xur sell ghorn, it's not fun to get it after that anymore) but, to put the vault in your ghost, so you don't need to go back to the orbit, to the tower in your vault, if you forgot your icebreaker and you need to do that tedious mission with the tank on mars.. let us earn tokens in the raid! much like vengaurd marks. but make like 5 different looking armor sets for one raid! so people can choose something. everybody looks the -blam!-ing same in this game even the shaders... do you want us to be clones??? (more like clowns) the way the game is set up it doesn't need a trading system nope.. you can as well put in a matchmaking system for raids, because www.destinytracker.com more events, BIG BIGGER BIGGEST EVENTS, like guild wars 2 there happen WORLD events it's a huge ass dragon where something like 100 people can team up and fight that beast together that's HUGE!!!! and very awesome... what does destiny have?? a -blam!-ing vandal captain target event,... wich you kill with 3 people maby 5 if you are lucky (most of the time you are just on your own)... let there be a world event on venus where ATHEON comes out of his vault of glass to kick some serious butts! and that there can be like 30 gaurdians in ONE instant to team up and attack him and most of all, shoot him in the D! still a survival game mode would be awesome (6players max tho) just addjust the difficult on number of players that's doing the mode. and there are so many great ideas out here and real bugs that really need to be fixed.. but what are you doing? your making yourself look like idiots by fighting against your playerbase (that's what your actions make it look like). xur sells the same crap every week, 3 weeks straight a ghorn upgrade.. the exotic armors that get sold week after week, erris that has a huge turn on for hunters with her bounties. but we got a legendary gun this week................. it's nice yes, but don't think we will forget what you are doing for your playerbase. i would be more happy if you fix the really annoying bugs than to give us a leggy weapon...
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2 답변I got so pissed at the glitches and complete lack of rewards for hours of effort that I turned the game off for a month. I came back when the DLC hit, and guess what? I'm about to quit again until the next DLC releases. I expect after a few weeks of that, I'll be done for good. If I hadn't already gotten the DLC I wouldn't have returned at all, I would just be back on Warframe where grinding is fun since you are always grinding towards a specific goal rather than grinding for the sake of grinding with a minuscule chance of actually being rewarded. You see, grinding is fine as long as you have a feeling of progression. Diablo 3 for example, is very grindy, but a lot of loot gets thrown at you. Sure, it is very rarely the loot you want but can be broken down into components that can be used to build something you DO want. Warframe is very grindy but you are constantly making progress towards making that brand new gun you wanted. Then when you get it you are levelling it up and making it better WHILE grinding for the next gun. GTA Online is grindy, but you are constantly earning money towards that new car/helicopter/home you have your eye on. The (not so) secret here is a constant feeling of forward momentum, no matter how small. People want to feel like their time invested is going to pay off, but the way it is just now people are grinding and grinding knowing full well that they may NEVER get the things they desperately want. If your game is going to involve grinding and RNG, then at least make sure something will always be awarded to give the sense of achievement. Green and blue items are NOT providing that feeling, since they are utterly useless. I have more weapon parts and sapphire wire than I could ever possibly need, and yet I am collecting tons more every day. This would be fine if you could use these materials to create something, but they are used solely for the odd upgrade. Remove the current RNG system and implement loot tables. Have some small rewards that actually feel like rewards while waiting for the big thing to drop into your lap. That's how the greatest grindfest games work, and there is a reason they are so popular, because it never feels like you are spinning your wheels. This is waaaaay longer than I intended so I will shut up now. I think I made my point.
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3 답변I agree 100% with this. As long as Bungie refuses to fix the screw ups with this game (i.e. the glitches that get you killed & the sh*tty RNG, among other things), I'm glad to see people will continually find new exploits to (basically) flip them off. I beat Crota with my team six times in the last two weeks and got nothing but shards for each one--[i]and we beat him legit each time[/i]--while my team all got gear and weapons (a lot of which they already had, though). Why should we bust our asses to do it right when our rewards are unsatisfying? Would you work a job if your boss said he was cutting your pay in half, but expected you to work the same hours? Hell no! So why should we struggle to beat this raid when all we're going to get a a couple of measly shards or energies (and only TWO of them for beating Crota??? At least you're getting 6-9 energies/shards for beating Atheon!) If Bungie can so easily fix the exploits, then they can fix the glitches too, but they do not. Why is this? Because they don't care to, simple as that.
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1 답변작성자: TheTrueReflex 1/9/2015 10:16:32 PMAgreed. Other players cheesing the raid doesn't effect me personally in the slightest. How about focusing on the flaws that actually effects everyone.
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I agree wholeheartedly. Bungie has set themselves up as against their players rather than for their players. Actions speak louder than words, and their repeated targeting of exploits over glitches and quality of life features speaks volumes of what they really think of their player base.