I don't know about penalties... I mean, people have kids and work and some raids can last quite a number of hours depending on organising ppl, connectivity issues, learning the raid, etc.

the problem is people are stupid. people are convinced that adding match making will make content easier when in reality it wouldn't. the difficulty of anything has nothing to do with how easy it is to start content. people point to wow, WoW has gotten easier since burning crusade, before raid finder existed. the only thing raid finder did was make it so instead of waiting 2 hours to find a raid ready tank and healer, you only waited 10 minutes.

For something that has proven as controversial as it has in the playerbase this should really be a no brainer for Bungie. They should be trying to cater to the largest group of players possible, and allow full MM. Instead Bungie is choosing to prove that they have no brains. And are indeed alienating a large percentage of their potential playerbase. As to the wisdom or effectiveness of this decision time will only tell. But as of right now they have refused to open MM so they do stand to lose players to this policy. Will the ppl who stay behind be enough to "carry the game" Probably. for a while. But I think once everyone has beaten the game...and ppl start moving on to other games it will become less important. Destiny will become just another game... I figure that within 2 moths of launch it will lose 50% of it's playerbase either to boredom or indeed to the lack of proper communications/MM. It's Bungie's choice. If they don't want ppl like us to play... then we don't have to. PPL think that MM leads to a crappy game...I say the opposite...Clans are responsible for the worst offences in games. They lead to elitism and non-co-operation, as well as exploitation and abuse of the game on a massive scale. If these are the only players that Bungie wants to cater to then that's fine...but they do so at the risk of poisoning their own community to the point where no one else wants to join them. You can already see it here in the forums... I can't see any reason to help any of these ppl...or Bungie if this is their stance on the issue. I'll just play other games that don't have ridiculous "requirements". and I'll have MORE FUN doing that. I really don't have a problem with that. And I suggest that you and everyone else consider doing the same. Play the game, until the point where you can no longer progress...and then stop playing and move on to something else. In protest of Bungie's decision. If they think they can stan to lose our interest and support in the game. I .E. If they think they can lose all the ppl who are actually being helpful to new ppl...vs those just wanting to be selfish and only help themselves. If they think they can loose all of us and still have a successful game..then I say - Have at it hoss! I think they'll probably start thinking about changing their tune when we all start getting to Raiding level, and having difficulty... Then other games will start coming out like Borderlands the Pre-sequel and COD AW- games that don't have any "requirements" Like I said, if they don't want us to play...we don't have to. I think they'll probably consider changing their tune if they started to see ppl leaving en-masse. But I think by then the damage will already have been done, and it will be too late. Ppl will move on. And this game won't be such a big deal anymore. Not that it even should be right now...it's made for 13 year olds to play. I just think it's so ironic that ppl can be so ignorant as to be on here arguing that MM will "ruin" the game. No guys... Ppl leaving to play other stuff because there is no MM will be what really ruins the game. Look at the polls 50% say no MM 40% say yes And that is based on the beta. That means yes a "majority" of players "don't want MM" BUT 40% OF PPL DO WANT MM That is not a low enough percentage that Bungie can just ignore it , or ignore the consequences of not having MM.. At least not if they want their game to be successful. Because I Expect those numbers to change radically as completely new players begin to play and join at launch. That 50% approval rating could easily shift to 40% or lower and then what would all these ppl be saying? But no guys..keep complaining...please! It really helps to prove your point...smh (derp just derp) I feel like if you ever needed to find a reson why there SHOULD BE MM Just take a look on these forums. There should be MM just so that new players don't have to come on here and read some of the things said by some of the"lovely" ppl they will be expected to play with. They will turn around so fast you won't even see them. No one new will want to join or start playing after the ""initial launch wave" of players. And there will be no one there to help them (with "no strings" attached). This game is already dead on arrival. It's a sinking ship...and I'm paddling away in a life-raft whistling a merry tune. I've been around long enough to know it when I see it. I've seen plenty of games that were just as hyped, made by just as good a company - fail because of asinine policies like this one. PPL on here can delude themselves all they want about how it will "make the game better worse" or whatever they want... They Ignore the bigger picture to their own detriment, and everyone else's The funny thing will be when they show up again with the next game and argue once again that MM will RUIN their "precious" game. As they run another game into the ground to the point that no-one wants to play it anyways. Just some food for thought, but seriously just consider that it's not such a big deal. If Bugie wants to -blam!- their game all up to hell then that's their decision. We lowly peons can only sit in awe of their majesty right? We'll see how successful their policies are when ppl start walking. One last final note... A lot of reviewers are waiting till the game launches to conduct proper reviews, as they have "not seen the full game" yet, or don't want to "judge it too early" etc. I personally am expecting quite mixed reviews for this game. I don't think it will have the "instant critical success" that it's banking on. Just my opinion I know... But I think once ppl actually start to figure out just how bad a system is in place...they'll start to complain as well. And Cheers man...don't listen to the ppl on here...they are only capable of the most basic of rhetoric...and are completely incapable of critical thought, or perspective, it's not worth it to argue with them...They don't have even a basic understanding of human nature or psychology...and instead are only arguing from their narrow illogical viewpoint of "Other games are like x so this game should be like y, and that will fix everything"...without even a rudimentary working knowledge fo all the points involved...or what the alternative outcomes could potentially be... They see anything that conflicts with their ideas as a threat, and they lash out because they are scared. Which I find hilarious....because it's like...what are they complaining about?...U SCURRED? If we want MM then let us have MM. it's our business and won't effect them... But, oh wait, I get it...it's because you are scared that you aren't good enough... That's why you need other ppl to "help" you play games... Because you are not confident in your own abilities (or other ppl's abilities) And you therefore rely on other ppl's acceptance and approval to measure your own self-worth. Which is actually kind of pathetic. Pathetic that they feel the need to come on here and argue against something that does not effect them at all, just so they can feel good about themselves and their "cliques". I personally don't need or require anyone's approval. And find all these groups of ppl to be incredibly pathetic. If Bungie wants to pander to them... I say let em. At least we'll all know where they are for now...and can avoid them. Filthy parasites.

Your still going on about this really???

They said no to matchmaking so all you're really doing is giving the opponents of MM one more opportunity to stomp on the users who want the option. In light of the decision I'd push Bungie to fix their communication issues already discussed since the Alpha. A couple solutions for players who want to raid outside of clans, guilds, and friendlists time constraints would be to allow for players to simply mill around the gate of the Raid if they select it while solo. Or some sort of visible marker like a specific Raid Emblem that could be applied to the player for inspection by other players when checking the roster of the Tower. This player wants to Raid. R3 them. Sitting outside the gate of the Raid they can just patrol the area till the game matches them on the backside where they can then just R3 each new solo player showing up and then form fireteams till they have the requisite to actually enter the Raid. The same process could be applied to a RAID NPC at the Tower. Regional players wanting to Raid constantly will need some sort of central point to gather around to begin the process. So the Tower or the gates to hell itself would easily serve the purpose if players had a visible point to gather around.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123586157&postcount=1937

im guessing they want you to be friends because raids are going to be way to hard to do with random people doing their own thing. most people dont talk to randoms in matchmaking so why would they talk in a raid? what if you guys dont get along and someone ends up just leaving? i say keep it. its so easy to find people you jive with online

My recommendation would be that u and the rest of the pro MM trash crybabies don't event attempt raids....I mean why would u want to attempt something that difficult and challenging when u are too much of a clueless jackass to even attempt to put together a raid group with out MM????

Bungie already confirmed they aren't changing it.

Raids are for the elite, go cry more. Matchmaking shouldn't (and won't be) in the final game.

I used to want matchmaking, but then I realized that there's a server dedicated to instances raids or strike... I'd rather join a clan and play in stable raids, then have the server lag.

Why don't you just wait and see when the game actually comes out lol

We wouldn't care if u guys had matchmaking if we didn't already know once u and ur 5 randoms get smacked ull be back in here in the forums in a hurry begging bungie to nerf the raid difficulty....how are clans not an answer?? Join a clan then boom people to play with.....I don't understand WHY ANYONE would want to be put with randoms if ur about to do one of the most difficult and challenging things bungie had ever made....and btw in those other games matchmaking was most likely used for the lower tier raids or dungeons and if there was matchmaking for top end extremely difficult raids I doubt anyone used them and if they did they say around sulking looking at all the guilds and organized groups wearing the loot they wish they had....these are too high caliber raids to even consider matchmaking...use some thinking skills guys seriously U guys are mad about no matchmaking?? Just imagine how mad ur gonna be when ur an hour into it and ur teammate leaves.....or 3 kids on ur fire team decide to blast death metal through your mic during a boss fight Look at it like this....let's say ur in matchmaking and u find 2 good players that have the time and experience to play the raid and everyone else is annoying clueless kids...your going to invite those two guys to ur fire team then go back into matchmaking and keep doing the same thing over and over until U have a full team of sensible players right?? Whats the difference in that and asking people on the forums or joining a clan? There's not a difference besides the fact that ur way will take longer to find a group...Get on the forums join the clan OR JUST PUSH FOR A SOCIAL CHAT SYSTEM like I've been posting over and over again so u can ask players the questions u need to know like what subclass are u...do u have any experience with this raid....what boss have u made it to? How much time do u have to raid......try asking bungie for things that will help everyone instead of asking for things that will just give bad kids another reason to cry later

Yes

I agree but Bungie will decide how we experience their game regardless of the number of issues involved with Xbox One's party system. Aside from that I saw where public events on the moon are the same as the ones on Old Russia. Nothing new, just a different colored devil walker. I've decided to hold off on Destiny until I see a full review and if Bungie decides not to exclude people who can't join parties and play Raids by no fault of their own.