[b]Summary for Clarity[/b] [i]I don't disagree that the classes are balanced in that they perform towards the style that they were intended. I also don't disagree that the most skilled player usually wins. What I am saying is that 1) the warlock is worse on paper in the way people generally assess skill in modern shooters, and 2) assuming equal skill, the player not playing the warlock class has the advantage in firefights and 1v1 scenarios. Both of those things are ok, since that's how the warlock is intended. This thread is not a call for a buff or nerf of anything, but rather a call to rethink the general understanding of what skill means, and how a game like destiny which accentuates roles should be played.[/i] In the grand scheme of things, I think Destiny's PVP is pretty balanced. It's absolutely impossible to balance this type of game completely, but as far as player/weapon attributes went, I didn't think it was too bad. It felt cheap a lot of times, but not unbalanced. That being said, I see a lot of people complain about warlock's nova bomb and how that character is so OP. Before Bungie does something stupid and nerfs it, I want to make a case for why the warlock is actually one of the weaker PVP choices. I'm not calling for a change, I just want to create a discussion and point out some perspectives of which many in the community may never have thought. [b]PVE[/b]: Even though I'm talking about PVP, I know some people are going to draw counterarguments from PVE. I will admit that the nova bomb in PVE is very strong and can kill tons of minions. But you have to look at PVP separately. Heck, I actually used the hand cannon in PVE. PVP? No. Some things just play out differently. [b]Nova Bomb[/b]: I see a lot of flak against warlocks due mostly to the nova bomb. Everyone thinks that because the nova bomb decimated in PVE, and because it has such a large blast radius in PVP, that it makes warlocks dominate in PVP. Considering you get supers in this game like you get candy on Halloween, that's a pretty serious imbalance accusation. [i]Titan[/i]: But let's look first at the Titan. The Titan has a somewhat similar ability to the warlock, in that he does some damage around a given area. But, that area seemed to be a bit smaller. The small area and requirement for being close seem to make the Titan's super obviously weaker. However, if anyone has looked ahead on the progression chart, or watched the recent level 29 Titan video on IGN, you can see that both of these things can be added to a Titan's super (distance and area of effect) later on in the game. [i]Hunter[/i]: The hunter's super is a bit more nuanced. The advantage of the golden gun is that the hunter gets several attempts to kill an enemy, You only get one shot with the other supers. I have missed kills with my warlock before. If you miss, it's gone. Furthermore, I would say that most of my kills with the warlock super were 1-2 players. I spent a number of games running around in an attempt to find a bunch of players together, but I found that it was better for me to get the most immediate kill and let my super charge up again. It's hard to find a group of 3 or more in close enough proximity to nova bomb them all. Even beyond this, most of those multikills I did get with the nova bomb were playlist specific. Had it been more of a slayer than an objective game, I wouldn't have seen people bunching up as they did on top of a flag. With all this in mind, I would argue that with all the misses and the lack of players bunching, the kpm of nova bombs is lower for a skilled player than the golden gun. Furthermore, the nova bomb is the SLOWEST of all supers, and much easier to dodge. Finally, just to be technical, the golden gun has the highest potential for number of kills from a single super. I know that this won't ever happen, but it's fun to throw in. Once the pierce ability for the GG is achieved - IF pierce allows the bullet to travel through all enemies - the GG could theoretically kill a whole team 3 times from one super. The other supers can only kill a whole team once from a single super. [b]Jump[/b]: Aiming and jumping in this game have apparently been nerfed, but that discussion is for a different thread. The point is that you are pretty vulnerable while jumping, and Bungie has decided to set most of the maps (that we've seen, anyway) up in such a way that it demands a lot of verticality. On that note, both the hunter and titan have a significant advantage in that they spend less time in the air due to their quick jumps. While glide may be versatile in locations you can get to, that doesn't matter nearly as much in PVP as it does in PVE. Glide is the worst jump ability for PVP, and one that must be used frequently. [b]Base Stats[/b] Even the base stats of characters puts the warlock out. They are easier to kill than both other classes, and they aren't all that fast. I would say that the amount of health you have and the ability to move away from danger quickly are the two most life saving factors. I do understand that regen is nice, but that doesn't save you like more health does in the middle of a fight, and it doesn't help you if you can't get away to allow a regen. [b]Future Abilities[/b]: When you look at the ability chart, Titans have a lot of additions that buff up their effectiveness in combat. Shoulder charge, their buffs to the super, etc. Hunters have some pretty crazy additions, particularly being able to turn invisible by simply coughing in-game. The only two things that stood out to me for a warlock are their ability to revive from the dead, and carry an extra grenade. Now that first one sounds pretty powerful, but there's a huge catch, and a potential catch. The huge catch is that this ability replaces the super nova bomb. So you're really foregoing a potential multikill to come back to life. The second, which I don't know the answer to, is does this really impact the game? What I mean by that is does it negate the points the other team got for killing you and does it negate your death (like revives in Battlefield)? If not, then what's the point in most gametypes? I will say that carrying an extra grenade is pretty cool and potentially useful, particularly in objective modes. But I don't think that one huge plus makes the warlock class stand out nearly enough to counter all they have going against them. Again, I don't think that's bad. Maybe it will force people into their character strengths. Warlocks are great for holding down wide areas and assisting teammates. But since most people view PVP in an individual light, the warlock on its own is easily the worst. [b]Clarifications[/b] 1.[url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67253960/0/0/1] I am not calling for a buff/nerf of anything (1st reply)[/url] 2. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67253735/0/0/1]What about the warlock's melee, which is the best? (1st reply)[/url] 3. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67253455/0/0/1]Why so many contradictions in the community about nerfing/buffing? (1st reply)[/url] 4. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67253798/0/0/1]What about the grenade? (1st reply)[/url] 5. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67254143/0/0/1]You exaggerate the potential of the golden gun...duh (1st reply)[/url] 6. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67307862/0/0/1]Attempted rebuttal of many good points (1st reply)[/url] 7. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67307862/0/0/1]An explanation of what I mean by "worst." (1st reply)[/url] 8. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67464245/0/0/1]If you believe all the classes are fine, what is the point of this thread?[/url]