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7/24/2025 6:51:54 PM
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I'm the same, and just asked for a refund on EOF.
This entire expansion seems aimed at one thing, player engagement hours key permance indicator (KPI).
I've played for years and this expansion is a step too far in engagement hours KPI. It requires you to grind for 100s hours to be able to access tier 5 gear, then they reset you back down every 6 months, so you have to grind again to gain access? You have to use latest gear every season for extra damage and resistance? I have a family, I have a life outside D2. Don't farm me for time every 6 months for me to be able to START the gear grind I want with the tier 5s... then not let me use them next season... it's a joke. Greed gone too far. The same behaviour is present in exotic catalysts, that was too much for me already last season, light grind is an insane choice from every angle... except... if your main aim is to farm players for their time.
If I asked 5 whys to get to root cause I'd need to ask Bungie, but hypothetically it could be the below...
Players exploited purely for their time at expense of enjoyment...
why.?.. bad game design forces players to spend 100s of hours with no reward...
why?.... engagement metric / key performance indicator (KPI) needs to be green? (players are the livestock/resource)...
why.?... Bungie pay incentives are based on this KPI/?
why?... that's what shareholders care about and no customer/player focused KPIs?
Root cause = missing customer focussed metrics / KPIs. e.g. feedback ratings, enjoyment feedback, surveys... KPI priority order should change to CUSTOMERS (PLAYERS) --> EMPLOYEES --> SHAREHOLDERS in terms of KPIs. Don't start and stop with shareholders.
Root cause = wrong KPIs
Action to fix = Add customer KPI as top priority and link to Bungie employee incentives?
Just ideas and theory. Hopefully our time is more respected in the future as players.
I want to grind for gear, I don't want to grind 100s hours to be ALLOWED to grind the gear I want (tier 5), with my progress reset every 6 months and forced to use loadouts I don't want to use.
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The way you explain it makes it sound like destiny is designed to try to make it addictive like a drug, and once you are hooked you become excessive with constantly playing. It’s predatory and seriously should be called out.
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It’s a good point, I think this is the way the gaming industry has gone in recent years and Destiny 2 is now onboard. It’s corporate greed unchecked, bit like food/consumer products industry having to make profit by cheapening ingredients or giving less alongside price increases. Here it’s the time game, get people hooked and trapped in a hamster wheel of false achievement and grind. It does seem pretty predatory, it certainly doesn’t help us enjoy the game but it does make us spend 100s hours to enjoy it for a small amount of time then reset. The small time window of tier 5 grind and the current seasonal bonus rendering them useless next season is unbelievable. However whoever thought of that maybe actually got promoted or paid handsomely as an external ‘engagement’ consultancy….
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Lol, you want the money hungry decision makers to put themselves at the bottom of the priority pecking order ... yeah that ain't gonna happen in this or any lifetime. Capitalist society, capitalist mindset, intrinsic human greed or just that all sense of compassion is scrubbed out of most folk through the brainwash system ... even otherwise decent caring people are forced to conform to this twisted norm of society just to make ends meet these days. Schools and most career/business experience teach us "Numbers good, bigger numbers better BUT...you all compete for numbers so... Go, get them, get those numbers, everyone's your enemy, fight... FIGHT FOR OUR AMUSEMENT" say the mighty Elites as they sit on their thrones an laugh at us fighting over mere scraps because they already own everything, and control everything. - "The only way to win is not to play" ... this applies in so many ways, to so many things
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Weird isn’t it… any ideas on why? Must be a reason? My guess is director bonuses are linked to engagement hours / player, so they’re farming the people who have time or are addicted. Also looking for whales ref silver next season to avoid the grind and pay not to play
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In theory this sounds right but in reality it's not always the case. It needs qualification: they'd have more "satisfied" customers. Bullies can force people to do things. It the age old battle of communism vs capitalism vs socialism, etc. Good things take time and effort. Maintaining freedom is hard work. You can't simply force others to do what you want. You need to convince them via walking the walk and talking the talk, and then allow them to decide what to do going forward...it's a slow process but the best one. People have invested so much in Destiny that it's hard for them to let go. It can start out wonderful but change into something horrible. Some can't bring themselves to see the change happening right in front of them, and others deny it. It's why so much noise has been made on these forums and elsewhere about the slow death of this game. Many got out a long time ago. Others can't see things for what they are, or are slowly becoming. The frog in the water. It becomes truly terrible when the community turns against itself, which is what has happened. Just read this forum for proof. Anyway....
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I think it’s a really good take for what it’s worth, the boiled frog makes sense too. Maybe confirmation bias too, as they’ve committed to defending it now maybe based on previous data and can’t be subjective with the new world or don’t want to see it
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작성자: Discovery 7/25/2025 6:34:27 AMEither Bungie is extremely out of touch with the general player base, or they are forced by internal structures/owners/too low a workforce to focus on a single goal (a metric, the elite players, or something). Whatever, it is hurting the general player base and thus in the long run Bungie themselves. This spring I actually got a survey from Bungie which i responded to. I don't remember the exact words but one question was something in the line of: "Do you have faith in Bungie that they can continue make Destiny a great game?". (If anyone else here got the same survey and remember the exact words, reply here so I can correct). My answer was "No, it is in the walls".
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작성자: yodas_buddy 7/25/2025 6:25:42 AMI agree yes, but my guess is the single focus isn’t streamers or the 1%, although they help the goal I think is likely. I’d guess it’s leadership bonuses / performance related pay linked to player engagement hours. So, if they make it work for streamers, who can play lots of hours and make lots of videos great, but the main aim is maybe yo trap the player base in a web of hours. Exotic catalysts, the new gear bonus, having to be 100s hours in to access tier 5s, which turn into a pumpkin with new gear bonus the next expansion where you’re back down in light and start again all make sense with this theory…
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작성자: Hugs 7/25/2025 5:34:39 AM[quote]So I'm bringing fire[/quote] LOL. Just remember, a room is messy until it's clean. Fire under the bum will get action, just not always the action we want haha. Good luck! I've been burned many times. ps. love ya!
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You make the ISO manager in me proud lol. But… you’re assuming the fine folks at Bungie actually have a QMS. I mean, idk… but it kind of seems they just, might not give a 💩 about their customer. Which is a core component of something that a functioning QMS is about. Competence is a thing too ya know. Ensuring your 💩 works. Proper resources and all that. lol corrective actions only work if ppl care 😂😂😂
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You get it :) Also what you say makes sense. My thought would be that the Bungie team as a whole probably care, but the leadership decisions are potentially driven by bonuses and pay incentives that prioritise engagement above all else. So that’s what happens….
