You're missing the key point here - whether it's a 'practically identical' timeline or a completely different one, it's still a different timeline and still a different Saint-14.
If the guardian had travelled back and NOT interacted with anything, it would be just straight time travel.
The fact that they DID interact, means that they've changed events which have already happened which means they've had a causal effect.
The paracausal nature of the Sundial only governs the point of the observer (being able to see various branches created by causal effects). Straight observation changes nothing but interaction changes everything.
Another way to look at it is the causal effect you can have upon the Schrödinger's cat experiment. When you observe the box, it's paracausal in nature (the cat can be either alive or dead and the two possibilities exist).
Once you interact with the box and open it, only one possibility can exist, but that possibility is now set for your reality and timeline. Unfortunately, the cat is dead in this instance
Now go back in time and open the box again a millisecond earlier and there could be an entirely different outcome from the one in your timeline and the cat lives, in which case a whole new branch now exists.
There are now two different cats, one dead, one alive and each exists within their own timeline.
Your observation of this is now paracausal again (because you have memory and knowledge of both outcomes even though it's only possible for one of those to exist within your reality).
If this sounds vaguely familiar, this is pretty much the essence of why the Vex run their simulations, which is what makes the entire plotline ridiculous because they could just as easily jump back and prevent the 'new' Saint-14 from existing or jump to a different timeline where he didn't rather than getting him to paint his bedroom black and refusing to open the curtains.
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[quote]You're missing the key point here - whether it's a 'practically identical' timeline or a completely different one, it's still a different timeline and still a different Saint-14.[/quote] Actually no, you’re the one missing the key point. Though it’s easy to understand given not every is familiar with the varying interpretations of time travel. It’s rather easy to interpret that we altered our current timeline, after all the past Saint-14 was visited by our Guardian from the future. Either multiple identical versions of our Guardian made the same trip to multiple versions of Saint or, from the perspective of this Saint, he’s been interacting with a singular timeline. Timelines in something like Steins Gate for example are more of a swappable outcome. A change doesn’t create a new timeline, it crosses you over to that new timeline with a new future, with small variations existing but major variations causing said shift. Then there’s implementations like Tenet, where time travel cannot actually alter anything and results in closed loops. For your point to work Saint would have had to be familiar with how the time travel of the Sundial worked, which isn’t necessarily the case. Time travel isn’t a science, there’s a reason Osiris had to invent the Sundial to save Saint-14. Now, if you can cite lore that proves Saint-14 was already aware he was from an alternate timeline or that he knew the Sundial was peering into alternate timelines and not just traditional time travel then you’ll have a point. Otherwise, there’s nothing to say that this wouldn’t be a revelation for him.
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[quote]It’s rather easy to interpret that we altered our current timeline[/quote] Yes, because we did - Saint was dead in our timeline, now he isn't. [quote]A change doesn’t create a new timeline, it crosses you over to that new timeline with a new future, with small variations existing but major variations causing said shift.[/quote] A change doesn't create a new timeline but instead places you in a new timeline? Therefore changing a timeline whether it be this one or the other, right? And it still involves a new timeline in which Saint would most definitely not be the 'real' Saint> [quote]For your point to work Saint would have had to be familiar with how the time travel of the Sundial worked,[/quote] No, in fact he wouldn't - all he'd need to know is the reason for the guardian's intervention, and as you don't exactly travel from the future to save somebody who doesn't need saving, that's a pretty obvious conclusion to come to. He'd know damned well that he wasn't meant to survive, because he didn't, hence the reason for the guardian showing up. Whether he's been transplanted from one timeline to another or saved in his, he knows that he's not meant to be there (and has known all along, or at least since the Battle of Zephyr Station where he was also given Perfect Paradox which would kind of indicate that this was part of a closed loop from within the same timeline considering that it contains an encoded message from himself as his farewell note). Saint's own words when emerging from the Infinite Forest were "My name is Saint-14. They call me the greatest Titan who ever lived. But I would be dead if not for you. Since the day I met you, I swore I would make it my duty to follow your example. I'm still trying." He knows that he should be dead, and that has been changed through whatever means, so his 'struggle' that he's not meant to be here and that his existence is a sham is something that he'd have considered and dealt with a LONG time ago, if he even considered it at all
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작성자: Shockwave 989 6/28/2024 12:27:40 PMIt’s precisely because the Conductor has revealed to him that he’s from another timeline that Saint is having his existential crisis. [quote]”The [b]Real[/b] Saint-14 was not meant to live. You love a forgery.”[/quote] [quote]”My existence is an error. You chose me because [b]your Saint is dead.[/b]”[/quote] [quote]”Almost like a [b]simulation[/b]”[/quote] The Conductor very clearly only considers our current timeline as real, as the true timeline. No doubt because the Conductor is Maya Sundaresh, the very same Maya who gave herself to the Veil in our timeline. Saint-14 has not only been told he’s not from our original timeline, something he didn’t know, but he’s also been ‘infected’, for a lack of a better term, with this way of thinking. Hence the existential crisis we see. His struggle isn’t “I should’ve died”, it’s that the Saint-14 everyone around him knew DID die and he was pulled in to fill his place.