Bungie started to focus on the casual player experience. They dumbed multiple things down narrowing the skill gap. They added abilities that slow players, abilities that heal, respawn overshields. Many original abilities also lost their edge due to multiple nerfs. Some stupid exotics were added to game, like Wormhusk and One Eyed Mask. They even added wallhacks to a subclass. Movement was nerfed in many occasion. They dialed some of the changes back, but it was too late. Lot of pvp enjoyers quit when stasis came out. Can't rly blame them. Things started to get fun around 30th anniversary again. Only thing back then that needed a nerf was Lorentz, but instead, they started doing all sort of weird changes that have backfired over and over again. And here we are now. Game feels mediocre and boring. Things have been balanced dull.

[quote]How did PvP get so bad?[/quote] -No dedicated servers -No PvP team -The new light system -No security team -Devs don't play the game -Devs rely on chart -Bugs -Glitches -Errors -Poor coding -Matchmaking -Spon points -Cheaters -Account recoveries -Paid carries -Low player base -Unrewarding loot system -Constantly changing CBMM/SBMM -Gamers constantly asking for everything to be nerfed. -Nerf everything is called balancing the game Destiny has the best PvP in Gaming.

[quote]First off let’s look at Bungie’s peer to peer server. It’s totally garbage and always has been. It saved Bungie the resources that would have made PvP a good experience and made it a total garbage heap that players go through every single game. That’s not all. It kept Bungie from being responsible for the experience because they have always claimed that it wasn’t cost efficient to make the game right by having dedicated servers.[/quote] The game should probably not be peer to peer. But having said that, that has nothing to do with the way it was allowed to work or with what people have been allowed to pretend they could handle with it working. The people can't handle it, so that combined with the fact that it is a PvE game could make it questionable in regards to whether doing all that work would have been worth it while they were also trying to build the game into what it is now and what its going to be. [quote]It’s all a lie. A blatant lie in fact. PvP was never supposed to be in the bigger picture of the game. Matter of fact is was just there to start to give players a chance to test their skills against other players but it got bigger than they expected.[/quote] Sometimes people deal in absolutes simply because it makes them look more like they know what they're talking about. When the game came out (to widespread acclaim btw) it was set up to be more competitive than D1 but also had a blank slate appearance to it that, to some of us at least, communicated a "wait and see" attitude in terms of whether or not the community was going to want it to go more in the direction of competitive Halo. A lot of what happened with Halo happened outside of the company, for better or worse. And that just kind of felt like an attempt to get back to some of that compared to D1 6v6. As and aside, D1 now looks more like Halo to me than this game could ever look. [quote]The biggest lie is that Bungie has always had the resources to change the format and make PvP a great experience but has chosen not to. This game was always intended to be a PvE game and PvP was never supposed to be the big part that it is today.[/quote] Activision would have followed the money wherever it went. And that would have actually been because they weren't stupid. [quote]The last point I want to make is that Bungie has intentionally ignored Destiny Tracker in its matchmaking system and that is on purpose. I mean who in their right mind would ignore an independent source that tracks every single player and their stats to write an algorithm that they claim is impossible to write to give players a matchmaking system that’s fair?[/quote] Destiny Tracker and its influence on what people think is one of those things that's everyone's fault. And the players are right up there at the top of that one with the calling something an authority because its on the internet and looks like one. Bungie told people not to pay third party stats too much attention for a reason. No one should be taking Destiny Tracker stats all that seriously. [quote]Kind of hard to believe a developer who constantly allows cheaters to stay in the game who have been proven cheaters while actively banning players who cheat the PvE side of the game with no hesitation. It shows that this game was never intended to be a PvP game and reaffirms that PvP was never intended to be as big as it is.[/quote] The fact that it was never intended to be as big as it is is 100% fine. So it actually is doing far better than one would think given its circumstances. This could possibly be a gold mine if everyone remembers that not every type of gamer plays Destiny for the PvP. So if this many people do then maybe a PvP that's a dedicated PvP will do very well. Especially given the history of the company making said PvP. Gotta hurry up on that one, some of these people weren't even born yet at this point. As far as the cheaters they probably aren't more of a problem in this game than most other AAA games. This game does have some PvP issues that those games don't have though. EDIT: If anyone wants to know why PvP players want them to make a hardcore PvP its because of the strange way this one evolved into something that a lot of people couldn't handle without Bungie trying to do that on purpose. Halo was also an accident as far as the competitive scene. There's something nostalgic that I'm not sure what it really is. "People can't even play it!"

1. Obviously this was never intended to be a "PvP game". Nobody thinks that. 2. Pvp not being intended to be "big" is wholly irrelevant. The community WANTS it that big. It keeps people around. It did in D1. It did in D2, until they made everything worse. 3. The developer doesn't "allow" cheaters. It just has a hard time identifying and catching them immediately, which any game that gives free access will have as once caught, you just make a new, free account, and you're back in immediately. This would be like saying police allow violence because they were standing right there at the exact moment it happend to stop it. Just untrue. 4. Calling Destiny Tracker an independent source is funny when they have to get ALL of their info from....Bungie lol. They're a third party service that uses a formula to determine your ELO that Bungie doesn't use. None of us have any idea what that formula is and neither does Bungie, so no, they are (wisely) not going to outsource they're matchmaking to a third party service based on their own data. 5. [quote]The biggest lie is that Bungie has always had the resources to change the format and make PvP a great experience but has chosen not to.[/quote] That's not a lie. That's just true and nothing you said following it proves its a lie. lol.

I just don’t know why they keep all the loot behind PvP so exclusive. If it’s not their main focus or put anything into it, why hold adept weapons etc behind flawless? I can’t even find Comp matches to play the wait is so long in my region I time out and have had 1 match this season. I would like to get the pulse, rose and sniper but literally can’t find games to even place: If they opened up the loot a lot of cheaters would leave for other games and the carry’s would slow down.

Because they didn’t hire me back in 2018 to lead the PvP team. Steve Jobs knew nothing about making phones but lead apple in making the iPhone. I can develop a game, but my PvP ideas would make destiny one of the greatest PvP games of all time. Sadly bungie has no pride in their craft and allowed their name to become trash

1) SBMM 2) back then, you had to put on a weapon to win- now it’s all abilities that determine it- aka THREADINGS

It got bad because the people developing it are bad simple as that

It's always been bad with hand cannons

probably cuz the pvp lead deav is a rage controller player

Bungie promises pvp map pack but don't think to balance pvp properly. If they leave pvp the way it is now, which they always do when it's a mess, they will hemorrhage players and I'm sure only the usual suspects will stick around as always.

As someone stated in a different post we have the choice of ultra Laggy cbmm Matches and totally unbalanced sbmm matches. System has been fully bungled

It’s obvious though ! Destiny pvp is on its way out ! Hardly anybody is on the pvp team now so Bungie will just let it go . Numbers are dwindling rapidly. I mean it had to come to end eventually 🤷🏼‍♂️

“almost not fun to play anymore” … so still fun, yeah?

[quote]PvP has become so bad that it’s almost not fun to play anymore. How did it come to this? Let’s explore that shall we. First off let’s look at Bungie’s peer to peer server. It’s totally garbage and always has been. It saved Bungie the resources that would have made PvP a good experience and made it a total garbage heap that players go through every single game. That’s not all. It kept Bungie from being responsible for the experience because they have always claimed that it wasn’t cost efficient to make the game right by having dedicated servers. It’s all a lie. A blatant lie in fact. PvP was never supposed to be in the bigger picture of the game. Matter of fact is was just there to start to give players a chance to test their skills against other players but it got bigger than they expected. The biggest lie is that Bungie has always had the resources to change the format and make PvP a great experience but has chosen not to. This game was always intended to be a PvE game and PvP was never supposed to be the big part that it is today. The last point I want to make is that Bungie has intentionally ignored Destiny Tracker in its matchmaking system and that is on purpose. I mean who in their right mind would ignore an independent source that tracks every single player and their stats to write an algorithm that they claim is impossible to write to give players a matchmaking system that’s fair? We’re the idiots to think that Bungie actually wants to make PvP a prominent role in this game when in fact that was never the case and I dare Bungie to prove me wrong on this and actually be honest about it which I guarantee they won’t. Kind of hard to believe a developer who constantly allows cheaters to stay in the game who have been proven cheaters while actively banning players who cheat the PvE side of the game with no hesitation. It shows that this game was never intended to be a PvP game and reaffirms that PvP was never intended to be as big as it is.[/quote] P2P connection Listening to the PvE community to make PvP decisions That’s basically it, the SBMM is fine all healthy PvP games have it. There is no magic forced 50% win ratio either thats just what happens with SBMM it places you in as fair as possible games. But because they have been flopping between SBMM and CBMM team balancing has been ignored since CBMM cant use team balancing since you cant always balance those teams so it would be a waste of time.

The servers are a topic of their own. My belief is that there is too many variables in the game to ever achieve balance. You look at all the different weapons and weapon classes, then all the perks, then all the ways subclasses and exotics work with the perks and weapons. Not to mention the supers. It's just too much for a PvP game. I'd love a basic simple PvP, like all other PvP games where you pick the weapons when you spawn in. Everyone can have the same gun with the same perks.

Unless you live under a rock you knew what type of servers the game was based on. If you chose to 'main' this game for its PVP thats kinda on you.... It's not like it was hidden or they ever even hinted they were going with dedicated servers...

It makes a lot of sense to not spend money on dedicated servers in a PvE focussed game. I’m not sure what the lie is supposed to be there. Either way, everyone should have been left in no doubt when the PvP team got dismantled. That was years ago. Destiny is PvE focussed. PvP is a side activity. Bungie chose to heavily invest in Marathon, rather than Crucible. We’ll see if that strategy pays off for them, but it makes sense to me.