We shouldn't be forced to play 2 or 3 characters. Not everyone has time to run all the weeklies on 2-3 characters, and among those that do, not everyone WANTS to spend that much time on the game. I only play one character (I have 3, but the hunter and titan have been collecting dust for a while now) and I get pretty close to cap every season, but my limiting factor is that I'm a solo player not running any high-end content. The core issue is that pinnacles are RNG on which piece you'll get. And if you consistently get pieces you don't need pinnacles on, it can screw you up badly. Instead of saying "you can't hit cap because you don't no-life the game", say "yeah, they should implement a protection so you don't get tons of pinnacles of the wrong item" Cause it wouldn't hurt you a bit to have others capable of hitting cap through their efforts, and effort should be rewarded, not punished with constant repeats of items you don't need.

[quote]We shouldn't be forced to play 2 or 3 characters. Not everyone has time to run all the weeklies on 2-3 characters, and among those that do, not everyone WANTS to spend that much time on the game.[/quote] It is what it is. If you don't have the time to invest then you won't hit the level cap. [quote]I only play one character (I have 3, but the hunter and titan have been collecting dust for a while now) and I get pretty close to cap every season, but my limiting factor is that I'm a solo player not running any high-end content.[/quote] Ok, so you lock yourself out of content that can help you get the gear you need. You choose to play 1 character and not do any endgame, this are your choices. Why you would care to reach the level cap as a solo player makes no sense to me, since that level would only be good for the endgame. [quote]The core issue is that pinnacles are RNG on which piece you'll get. And if you consistently get pieces you don't need pinnacles on, it can screw you up badly.[/quote]This is a loot based game. RNG is not an issue, it is a feature. I can see how this could "screw someone up badly" before they added artifact levels, but now you can surpass that 'forever 29' thing caused by missing gear. [quote]Instead of saying "you can't hit cap because you don't no-life the game", say "yeah, they should implement a protection so you don't get tons of pinnacles of the wrong item"[/quote] You could also not ignore 80% of the game and get the gear you are missing. But you choose to stick to pvp and only do some pve. Nobody needs to "no life" this game to reach the cap. [quote]Cause it wouldn't hurt you a bit to have others capable of hitting cap through their efforts, and effort should be rewarded, not punished with constant repeats of items you don't need.[/quote] From everything you have described, these sound like your personal choices did not get you to the pinnacle. Seriously, as a person with a so called life, why do you have fomo on a gear score that does not effect the modes you play?

Do you think I'm the guy who started the original topic here? I'm not. I can hit pinnacle, and likely will by the end of the season, as I usually get close even without actively trying. I'm fully aware that someone can casual their way to pinnacle, because I'VE casual'd my way to the pinnacle cap a couple of times in the past. But to clear some things up... I always try to stay CLOSE to cap because I'm always on the lookout for people to play this game with. I'm not a solo player by choice, my friends don't enjoy the game which leaves me playing it alone. But if I meet someone I like and want to play the game with them, I don't want them held back waiting for me to go from low or mid light to cap. I stay close, but don't bother hitting it, because that way I don't waste effort on nothing, but I'm close enough that if I make a friend to run high-end with, I can hit cap pretty quick to do so. I also never said I have a life. Medical issues leave me stuck at home most of the time, and my "job" is that I stream stuff like D2 and Backpack Hero a couple times a week. But I don't have to speak exclusively for me, I'm not that selfish. I understand other people have jobs, or family commitments, or other things that take priority over the game. If someone like that wants to hit pinnacle cap to enjoy high end content, they should be able to as well as anyone else. So I feel it should be 100% viable to reach cap in a reasonable amount of time on a single character. I don't mean make it easy. It shouldn't be equivalent to a participation award. But it should be well within possibility so they can enjoy everything this game has to offer. I don't like the idea of gatekeeping content, you know?

[quote]Do you think I'm the guy who started the original topic here? I'm not.[/quote] I don't think you're the OP, but you use "we" and "I" when talking about not reaching the gear cap. [quote]I can hit pinnacle, and likely will by the end of the season, as I usually get close even without actively trying.[/quote] Since bungie are not increasing the gear cap, this should be possible for more people who play very little. [quote]I understand other people have jobs, or family commitments, or other things that take priority over the game. If someone like that wants to hit pinnacle cap to enjoy high end content, they should be able to as well as anyone else. So I feel it should be 100% viable to reach cap in a reasonable amount of time on a single character.[/quote] Here is the thing when it comes to the end game. The newest Normal raids and dungeons are 20 levels below the cap, while the older content is capped at 1600. Reaching the cap is not need for these activities. These activities also give Pinnacle rewards which would make reaching the cap easier if they would care to reach it. For hard mode content, reaching the cap is either not needed or not enough since you need to grind up XP for artifact levels. A 1820 requirement would be a hard goal to reach for someone who plays casually, they might meet the requirement at the end of the season but then they would be reset at the start of the next.

I use "we" and "I" because that's how language works. I said I can hit pinnacle, and I said I have come close in the past but never bothered to actually shoot for cap on purpose. I said "we shouldn't be forced to play 3 characters" because the response to OP was "play 3 characters", so I was explaining that logic like that is flawed at best and toxic at worst, because it should not be required to play 3 characters just to be able to run high-end content, and if playing 3 characters is the only way to get the gear necessary to play high-end, then that problem needs to be fixed. Not once did I use "I" or "we" in any unwarranted fashion, nor did I use it in a way that would imply I personally struggle to reach cap. You're absolutely right, not raising gear cap will make it easier, but at the end of the day those who are under cap and can't get the pinnacle they need to reach it are still stuck below it. The problem is less about being unable to invest the time to reach it and more about being unable to progress power level due to RNG. My entire point is that RNG should NOT play a factor in power progression, and for some reason that's a contentious belief. Grinding XP is not NEARLY as difficult as you seem to believe, nor is it as randomized as pinnacles. I could spend 2 weeks farming for 8 hours a day trying to get a pinnacle to drop in the helmet slot (all purely example, don't take this as reality like you have been doing) And it could just NEVER drop. In that same time, you could earn enough XP to get +9 to your Power boost by ONLY doing the available daily bounties with no XP boost. With an XP boost, you'd hit +10. And that isn't accounting for the XP from killing enemies and completing the activities you'd be getting the bounties done in. That's an easy +11. And if you're farming 8 hours a day, getting that done is no problem at all. And that's the issue: Because there's no protection on pinnacles, you could go that ENTIRE TIME without getting a pinnacle in the slot you need. You could get pinnacles for everything else, but never the one you need. All I'm saying is that Pinnacles need protection, that the game should read your highest achieved power in EVERY slot, and then drop the pinnacle for the slot that has the lowest result. If you're 1805 in everything BUT one slot, and that one slot is 1800, then the pinnacle should be guaranteed to drop in the slot with the highest gear of 1800 so you're not locked at a lower power. I don't see why that's a contentious belief.

[quote]I use "we" and "I" because that's how language works. I said I can hit pinnacle, and I said I have come close in the past but never bothered to actually shoot for cap on purpose. I said "we shouldn't be forced to play 3 characters" because the response to OP was "play 3 characters", so I was explaining that logic like that is flawed at best and toxic at worst, because it should not be required to play 3 characters just to be able to run high-end content, and if playing 3 characters is the only way to get the gear necessary to play high-end, then that problem needs to be fixed. Not once did I use "I" or "we" in any unwarranted fashion, nor did I use it in a way that would imply I personally struggle to reach cap.[/quote] That is fair. I misunderstood your angle. [quote]Grinding XP is not NEARLY as difficult as you seem to believe, nor is it as randomized as pinnacles. I could spend 2 weeks farming for 8 hours a day trying to get a pinnacle to drop in the helmet slot (all purely example, don't take this as reality like you have been doing) And it could just NEVER drop. In that same time, you could earn enough XP to get +9 to your Power boost by ONLY doing the available daily bounties with no XP boost. With an XP boost, you'd hit +10. [/quote] Griding XP can be very easy or a very long slog depending on a player. Since we were talking about casuals and how they do not have the time to invest in 3 characters, I also approached the XP argument from the point of view of a casual. I believe it is safe to assume that a casual player is not stacking bounties or playing long enough to get their artifact level up quickly. It might take them half the season or more to reach +10 or +11. [quote]And that's the issue: Because there's no protection on pinnacles, you could go that ENTIRE TIME without getting a pinnacle in the slot you need. You could get pinnacles for everything else, but never the one you need. All I'm saying is that Pinnacles need protection, that the game should read your highest achieved power in EVERY slot, and then drop the pinnacle for the slot that has the lowest result. If you're 1805 in everything BUT one slot, and that one slot is 1800, then the pinnacle should be guaranteed to drop in the slot with the highest gear of 1800 so you're not locked at a lower power. I don't see why that's a contentious belief.[/quote] I don't think that this is a bad idea, and if we were still in the Forsaken era I would 100% support this idea. I just think that in this era that gives us artifact bonuses, reaching the gear cap is not really necessary anymore. They could add this protection today and I honestly do not see it making that much of a difference to players since the endgame, at least according to the games requirement and not the communities requirements, is less gatekept than before.

I myself am a casual player. Can check my stats if you like, I'm not on the game super often and when I am I'm not exactly doing much. And yet with what few bounties I do, I have a good amount of XP buildup from it. If a casual decided they wanted to spend a solid hour or two grinding XP they could make some decent gains if they knew what to grind. And yeah, with artifact levels we don't NEED pinnacle unless playing artifact-disabled content, but for those who want to hit cap, they should be able to. It's a change that would hurt nobody, impact nobody but those it actively helped, and wouldn't even be a difficult undertaking from a programming standpoint. There is already a system in place for reading your highest power level of gear, it wouldn't be difficult to implement a system to filter it a little more carefully to protect against unwanted/unneeded pinnacles in the wrong slots.

You sure have a lot of excuses, but then you chastise everyone else for saying otherwise. You choose to ignore endgame content, then cry why I cant get what I want. 🤷🏾‍♂️ I mean............But hey do tell

I'm not crying at all. I'm saying that I personally don't run endgame content because none of my friends play this game. I'm saying I stay close to pinnacle cap, without having to play 3 characters and without having to actively try, in case I ever do have others to play with. I'm also saying that pinnacle cap should be something everyone can get without having to worry about RNG screwing them out of it. OP has been screwed out of progression by RNG, and the response they were given was "play 3 characters" My point was that it is entirely possible to reach cap without doing that, but if RNG is going to screw you over then the RNG of it needs to be removed. Pinnacles can have a protection so that it won't drop pinnacles in the form of items you don't need. It wouldn't be hard to implement a system that checks your highest light item in each category and drops an item of whatever type has the lowest result. Say, if you have an 1805 helm, 1805 boots, 1805 gloves, but your highest chestpiece is 1800, and all your weapons are 1805, it wouldn't be hard for the game to read that and guarantee your next pinnacle drop be a chestpiece. I don't see why I'm getting talked down to for this. I also don't understand why you're talking to me like I'm insulting anyone or as you said chastising people. I'm not. I'm talking, trying to have a discussion, and you're responding with "stop crying, stop making excuses".

[quote]OP has been screwed out of progression by RNG, and the response they were given was "play 3 characters"[/quote] Not screwed out, very Slightly inconvenienced since that 1 item level can be easily made up by leveling the artifact instead of creating more characters. OP is already 6 levels over the cap for what it is worth. If this was year 1 or forsaken, i would have agreed with you. But since we are not reliant of RNG alone we are not locked out of content by not reaching a 1810 gear level.

Except in content that disables artifact power bonus. It still should not be reliant on RNG to get to pinnacle cap without having to rely on artifact to cover the difference.

[quote]Except in content that disables artifact power bonus.[/quote] The content that disables your power bonus are as such: Hero: limits you at 1765, -5 of the recommended level Legend: limits you at 1815, -15 of the recommended level Master: limits you at 1820, -20 of the recommended level Grand Master: limits you at 1815, -25 of the recommended level Iron Banner: disables all artifact bonus [quote]It still should not be reliant on RNG to get to pinnacle cap without having to rely on artifact to cover the difference.[/quote] If the RNG is not good on one character players have two other routes to take, the artifact and playing another character. If someone, like the op, is 1 pinnacle away from reaching the gear cap, the artifact is more than enough to make up that difference in the harder endgame, in which that 1 power level does not make a difference. There is no real necessity to reach the gear cap. Especially now that bungie is not increasing the gear cap form season to season. 2nd and 3rd characters are also not really needed to reach endgame either, in my opinion. The only thing they are truly good for are getting extra shots at raid/dungeon weapon drops and exotics. A protection system could be a third type of buffer for players. I'm not really against that. I'm just saying that reaching the cap is not needed as it was in the past and players would not be missing out on much, if anything, by not reaching it. It would be more beneficial to focus on specific weapons and armor for endgame instead of the 1810 number. We can agree to disagree about where in the spectrum of necessity this protection system would fall under. We seem to have respectfully said all we had to say about this topic on both our ends.

I've never said it was necessity though. Just that it should be in place. Hurts nobody, helps some, and would take minimal effort on the development end given it would simply be a slight modification to the current power-reading system the game uses.

[quote]I've never said it was necessity though.[/quote] I know you did not. Let me clarify, I meant that if we were to use a 1-10 spectrum of necessity. 1 being "not at all" and 10 being "absolutely." And I'm sure we can agree to disagree where this feature would fall under this spectrum.

If we're basing things on necessity then the game itself falls under 1. Seriously, you can't look at luxury and entertainment in terms of necessary vs not necessary, ONLY in terms of quality of life or quality of fun. This is a video game. If a change would make the game more fun for ANYONE, without hindering anybody else's fun, it is a good change. The video game is, in and of itself, not a necessity. It's a luxury. So looking at aspects of it as if they are necessary or not is a poor view to have.

[quote]If we're basing things on necessity then the game itself falls under 1. Seriously, you can't look at luxury and entertainment in terms of necessary vs not necessary, ONLY in terms of quality of life or quality of fun. [/quote] In terms of Destiny my guy. In terms of Destiny. Not the whole universe. Common man, wtf? Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? You're on a destiny forum, not some life advice forum. Use context clues, man. [quote]This is a video game. If a change would make the game more fun for ANYONE, without hindering anybody else's fun, it is a good change.[/quote] Yeah this is a video game. So what? Is that supposed to mean anything? Plenty of people wanted Elden Ring to have an easy difficulty because "it would have made the game more fun for some players while not taking anything away from others." The makers of that game said "no" to that type mentality & sold millions of copies and won game of the year. As for Destiny. The current version of the game has no need for a drop protection system. The addition would not hurt anyone or help anyone. Nor would it make the game more or less fun. It's a net zero gain. Absolutely pointless in this era. [quote]The video game is, in and of itself, not a necessity. It's a luxury. So looking at aspects of it as if they are necessary or not is a poor view to have.[/quote]We're talking about Destiny and if this feature is a necessity in the game. This is not an existential discussion.

It's just kind of ridiculous to me to talk about whether a quality of life change should be implemented based on necessity level. Champions weren't necessary, but they were added. Artifact mods being passive weren't necessary, but the change was made. Armor elements being done away with wasn't necessary, but they changed it anyways. Necessity, even in the context of the game, has no place when discussing quality of life matters. Pinnacle protection would be a quality of life change, no different than passive artifacts or armor elements being removed, or mods being universally unlocked for everyone without needing to unlock them, or full-auto fire being implemented as a mod AND a setting. If they can make both a setting and a mod for full-auto, there's no reason to bring whether something is necessary into a discussion about pinnacle protection. Quality of life, be it in the context of Destiny 2 or the context of life, should NEVER be argued against simply because "well it isn't necessary is it?" ESPECIALLY when perfect examples of 100% unnecessary quality of life improvements exist, AND when perfect examples of 100% unnecessary quality of life detriments have been added as well.

[quote]It's just kind of ridiculous to me to talk about whether a quality of life change should be implemented based on necessity level.[/quote] [quote]If they can make both a setting and a mod for full-auto, there's no reason to bring whether something is necessary into a discussion about pinnacle protection.[/quote] You're speaking from both sides of the face. On one hand you're saying that such a feature needs to be added, hence you see it as something that is necessary, and with the other hand you are saying that this is not an issue of necessity. [quote]I'm no fan of this games boring pve. I get close to cap on my one character with what limited pve I play, and with pvp.[/quote] [quote]I'm saying that I personally don't run endgame content because none of my friends play this game.[/quote] [quote]It's boring. The PvE is boring. The PvP is the only interesting thing about this game, in my opinion.[/quote] With one hand you say you find the PvE boring choose not to play it, with the other had you say that you do not play the endgame is out of your hands because your friends left and you have nobody to play with. [quote]Champions weren't necessary, but they were added.[/quote] How was something that was limiting people's loadouts for years something that benefited the game? [quote]Necessity, even in the context of the game, has no place when discussing quality of life matters.[/quote]You make zero sense. This whole time you've been telling me why you think that this feature is a necessity, even calling it a QOL matter. What do you mean it has no place in this discussion. I replied to you in good faith but you are cannot return the favor. I would have been better of saying You know what. I wrote a longer reply and deleted it. I'm done here. I'm more than happy to agree to disagree, even you are are not able to do the same.

I have NEVER said it's a necessity. I've said "they should", and that it would improve the QoL without hurting anyone. That's not saying it's necessary, that's saying it's something that would improve QoL. I find PvE boring, yes. I think it's pretty much the same across the board, just with varying levels of HP and damage reduction on the enemies. But my dislike of PvE does not change the fact I would like to be able to get the REWARDS from higher-end content. I am UNABLE to run the content that requires more players, and that means I'm unable to get the loot exclusive to that content. Loot that I would like to have. I find it weird that you think I have to enjoy PvE to want the loot from it. Read back. I did say "AND when perfect examples of 100% unnecessary quality of life detriments have been added as well.". That was referring to Champions. Unnecessary and harmed QoL, still got added. I never said the suggested change was necessary. I was explaining why it would be beneficial. I AM trying to have a conversation in good faith, but you're putting words in my mouth, twisting my meanings, and you aren't actually LISTENING to what is being said. You're getting annoyed that my response isn't as simple as "yeah you're right" and moving on, but my response isn't GOING to be that simple when I don't feel that you understand what's being said.

[quote]I have NEVER said it's a necessity. I've said "they should", and that it would improve the QoL without hurting anyone. [/quote] How do you not see the contradiction? You view this as something that should be in the game. You see it as something needed. But are also saying it is not necessary. [quote]You're getting annoyed that my response isn't as simple as "yeah you're right"[/quote] I'm getting annoyed because you keep contradicting yourself. That is it. And let's be real. If anything you're the one refusing to drop this topic until I agree with you. I've said a million times that we should agree to disagree. IDK how you interpret this as anything other than me being ok with us not agreeing. Then again, you did spin off into an existential side quest earlier. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not interested in that. Bye bye.

I dont no life this game and can still hit pinnacle on 3 toons. Its not hard, but do tell

It's a time investment and a willingness to run the same bland gameplay on 3 characters. I'm no fan of this games boring pve. I get close to cap on my one character with what limited pve I play, and with pvp. Not everyone is willing to run the same boring crap on 3 characters, nor is everyone interested enough to hit cap on 3 characters. Plenty of us are only interested in one character. You hit pinnacle on 3 characters. I'd call that no-lifing simply because you have nothing better to do than that.

Sorry you feel that way🤣 that playing this game is hard for you✌🏾✌🏾