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작성자: Ferus Lux
7/2/2021 9:43:20 AM
70
Dueling Handcannons with Auto Rifles feels miserable.
Its annoying how a slow firing Handcannon can beat 600 and 720 RPM Auto Rifles in close range. TTK values don't even tell the full story because Handcannons have less windows of opportunity to disrupt TTK or be disrupted because they don't care about flinch, have the best hit boxes and sticky aim assist, and can peek shot you.
A single bullet from a Handcannon does more damage than 1-3 Auto Rifle shots So if a Handcannon user Bobs into cover even for a split second, your TTK values are destroyed and you will lose the fight if you don't run away or get to cover.
So how much longer do we have to do this? Handcannons dont even mechanically make sense. They are unaffected by flinch, cause the most flinch, have completely predictable recoil that resets super fast, and have little to no accuracy penalties when doing any action.
I have one request: Sit the sandbox team down and have them actually play Crucible against each other with Handcannons vs Auto Rifles in a livestream. I would love to hear what they have to say whenever Auto Rifles lose engagements they shouldn't. If they believe they're in a good place, I wanna see every tactical error they make when they die that they could've prevented.
*Edit: The changes detailed in TWAB to 120 Handcannons are everything I and others could've asked for and my crusade is over. Now we wait and see how the changes on paper look in actual gameplay.
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3 답변작성자: R Y U K E R リューカー 6/28/2021 3:07:10 PMHere’s the issue: Hand Cannons (specifically 120s) are [b]burst[/b] damage. Auto Rifles are [b]sustained[/b] damage. This distinction is important because if you duel a HC when they have the option of peek shooting, you’ll definitely lose because you’re having your ability to inflict sustained damage taken away whilst they’re able to still inflict burst damage. Is there an issue with 120s? Perhaps, but let’s be real, there will always be a meta and the game tends to suffer more when low skill ceiling weapons rise to the top. I don’t want to be as reductive as others by telling you to learn how to use ARs but it’s not an irrelevant point that different weapons need to be used in situations where they are optimal, the issue occurs when one weapon or archetype outclasses multiple weapons in different situations which arguably 120s currently do and ARs definitely did during that awful Gnawing Hunger/Hard Light meta. Perhaps the issue isn’t that any weapons are too good but the the maps don’t provide enough opportunity to use diverse loadouts.
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4 답변
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They wont do anything. All yhe whiney babytubers wouldnt look cool and complained to no end when we got that glimmer of hope with 600rpm autos a few seasons back....get used to 120s and high inpact shotguns as 90% the loadouts youll see
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8 답변
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3 답변
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9 답변
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13 답변That’s kinda how it should be. Any weapons that are just hold and spray should be outclassed by other weapons that require tapping the trigger and adjusting for recoil
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1 답변Or, and I know this is a wild concept [spoiler]consider not just playing how the hand cannon user wants you to[/spoiler]
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16 답변Yeah no, the last time the 600 rpm auto meta was a thing that was the most boring destiny has ever been lol no thanks
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1 답변I hate saying this, but you have to make others play the way you want in a gunfight. If you act the way they want you too, you're playing right into their hands
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40 답변Please don't complain about the peek shotting thing. That is what they're [i]designed for[/i]. If a guy is peek shotting you, force him to stop by using a grenade, or take cover yourself. If he chases you down, you can absolutely melt him with an auto while he's exposed, provided you land your shots. That is what an auto is designed for. Absolutely melting someone who is exposed, and they actually do it really well. Peek shotting is at its most effective when the target isn't near cover. So play near cover and either bait the enemy to push you (might need some patience) or force them to expose themself with a grenade. It isn't that hard. Seriously. Run a build with a demolishionist auto and double bomber and you'll see how quickly you can melt a hand cannon user if you play within your range and force them to expose themselves. And there's nothing wrong with playing around the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent's gun. For snipers you peek unpredictability. For autos you peek in and out. For scouts you play aggressive. For HCs you play to flush them out. For fusions you bait the charge. For shotties you bait the push and backpeddle or play pateintly. Nothing wrong with that. It is one of the things that makes the game interesting. Most of the rest of what you said is valid, except for hand cannons not receiving flinch. They certainly do. But the only archetype that needs adjusting really is 120s. Dueling 140s with an auto is much, much more manageable becuase 140s have less range and aren't as ridiculously forgiving and sticky as 120s.
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They need better flinch control, recoil reduction like some of the other primaries got, and better bodyshot damage. Autos require consistency and are built around being inconsistent. They suck under flinch which is what all the best primaries in the game dish out heavily. Their recoil is worse than smgs now and 360s and 720s still are quite difficult to even consistently land shots in combination with flinch. Then there's their forgiveness...yeah, the weapon with the lowest burst damage in the game has a crappy bodyshot to headshot ratio for optimal ttk...pulse rifles are more forgiving or equally as forgiving, that's some bs. Even if they hit those 3 problem areas, you've still got to deal with inferior range capabilities and only average ttk values. Like...their balancing for autos is just a combination of crappy and lazy balancing. Autos don't only need damage bungie, they need to handle more efficiently as well so that landing those shots isnt as awful and is more efficient. The 600 rpm meta was exactly what was wrong with autos and their hesitation to go back in for another look is just saddening. They made them kill too fast but ignored every other issue they had that made them suck in the first place.
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3 답변I remember in D1 and D2-Y1 when ARs were actually good against most weapons, now it's just sad.
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[quote] A single bullet from a Handcannon does more damage than 1-3 Auto Rifle shots So if a Handcannon user Bobs into cover even for a split second, your TTK values are destroyed and you will lose the fight if you don't run away or get to cover.[/quote] Ok you tell me, how confident are u that standing out in the open, not going for cover, or simply backing up works. I strongly hate this saying but get good dude, standing in place is never gon a work. [spoiler]man whats the point, hes pobably gonna just graduate to crouch shotting [/spoiler]
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If there's any nearby cover, handcannons will usually win. There's almost always nearby cover. Therefore, handcannons will usually win. If you catch someone in the open while using an auto, you have a decent chance provided you're close enough. Even then, they can just outrange your auto with handcannons. Autos are terrible when compared to the meta, don't listen to these kids who say otherwise.
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4 답변I dunno. My kill clip messenger doesn’t have any problems dueling anything. Hand cannons, autos... supers. Anything.
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10 답변I've been running Chroma Rush basically all season, and I'm going to have to disagree. Feels just fine as a dueling weapon. You're complaints all seem like bad positioning, or choosing the wrong fights to me. One or two well placed squats amidst your strafing during a duel is usually enough to throw off the average hand cannon user. And if it's not, you learn who it is in the lobby pretty quickly, and can change your game plan for when you see them again. If someone is peek shotting, chuck a nade on their hidey hole, or rotate for a better position, or just leave. You don't have to win every duel, hell, you don't even have to participate in every duel. If it isn't to your advantage, dip! Find someone unaware, or any other easier target.
