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8/16/2020 8:02:08 AM
53
"Respecting players time" My pov on their execution of sunsetting/reissuing
With all the solstice discussions, one thing seems to have been forgotten by a lot of peeps.
I wanna quickly share my thoughts on the overall loot/sunset idea and the execution by Bungie.
To give you an example. Back in season of the drifter, they introduced a really cool, special and hard to obtain 600 rpm auto rifle. It was a rare gun with really amazing perk combos for pve and pvp. It was locked behind an arguably hard to farm activity called Reckoning Tier 3. You basically had to have a premade with decent ppl who know to use their support supers. Drop rates were low, until i had the curated one for pve and my personal pvp god roll, probably 200+ hours of Reckoning T3 have passed.
I felt accomplished, it was a rough and boring grind but it felt good, having something special, something not everyone has right away with zero effort. After the auto rifle buff, i was one of the few ppl to be seen with this insane gun. Ppl were constantly asking me "where did you get that" "that gun is insane, it melts" "i'll grind for that one aswell". (It's out of question 600 rpm's need an adjustment, but that's not the point here)
Going on, Bungie announces "sunsetting". The most dumb idea i've ever heard of and their whiteknights actually defend that stupidity. They actually do, that's beyond me, ngl. They should have just retired previously outstanding guns like mountaintop, recluse, wendigo, do what you want with those, idc. I grinded for them but they were static rolls with outstandingly good, op perks. Take them away, noone will mind.
But here's the fun part, who am i hurting by using my outlaw + rampage austringer for multiple years/seasons. Why does my 400+ hour grinded for spare rations with rapid hit + multi killclip hurt the games economy, why does my curated gnawing hunger need to be sunset with regular perks? The answer is: Lazy game design. They are out of ideas, release boring guns and want to enforce us grinding for those and use those boring guns over our cool ones from older seasons. Also armor sunsetting. WHY??? Your regular player will never collect enough end game mats to perfect builds with the constant expiration date in his neck. NEVER.
Already drifted away a bit, while just thinking that this idea is somewhat understandable and accaptable for a lot of ppl, my brain just hurts. Going on with my main idea of the post.
So i grinded for that said gnawing hunger for 200+ hours, felt accomplished, felt special. Bungie now decides to sunset it and re-release it for everyone for free, to get a roll of that gun like every 15 minutes with an almost guaranteed drop rate via umbrals and world drops. Not only that. They also show the middle finger to everyone like me who grinded for THE EXACT SAME GUN with the EXACT SAME PERKS for 200+ hours by giving the new "free" version of the gun a higher power cap telling me that my previous effort is invalid. Just thrown into the bin. How is this idea even remotely understandable and appreciated by anyone with atleast some brain cells.
Sorry for my long essay, i need to vent from time to time because this direction aint it. We need a new lead at Bungie, we need a new direction, actually respecting players time because what is a looter shooter without that? Just a shooter imo. Not even a good one, just a shooter with an annual reset like call of duty. The amount of joy this game gave me aside, i don't know if i can stick with this in the long run if their vision continues to go into that direction.
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7 답변작성자: Evz86 8/16/2020 11:25:12 PMSunsetting itself is an absolute crap idea no matter how you look at it, time investment for the people that grinded all those guns out is just....gone, all that time wasted on destiny for no reason whatsoever. Like you said instead of making new,better guns their just lazy AF n wont do it, they introduced pinnacle weapons, and eventually introduced pinnacle weapons for more activities. After a few seasons they decide to introduce “ritual” weapons which were again absolutely crap because they were to lazy to think of unique perks for hard-earned guns. Time invested+time wasted according to those effin bungo idiots. And while im here...solstice armour glows should be account wide, you really think i wanna grind out all 3 characters even tho i dont do comp or trials pvp? I have to pay people to do it for me. Im a collector n gotta have everything even if i dont use it.
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1 답변I agree with you. Sun-setting was the deal-breaker for me. First season I did not bought pass or bother to play. Cant find any more reason to. All I did was perfect my builds and try out new weapon rolls in my favorite activities (Gambit prime, nightfalls, raids and trials) and all are light relevant. So I have no more reason to sink a single second in destiny anymore. Migrated to warframe despite preferring destiny game-play simply because having my weapons relevant forever is absolute for me.
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My wife and I will not be buying into Destiny any longer if they move ahead with sunsetting. I realize it's probably a done deal but I won't stop talking about it until it happens, because Bungie has changed their minds before. Maybe they will see the error of their ways and come to the conclusion that's it's not worth losing players over it. We've really enjoyed this game for the last 3 years, neither of us are happy about it and neither of us want to leave but neither of us want to continually need to re-obtain new armor and weapons every few seasons. Enough is enough.
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27 답변You expect a non troll answer when you outright call anyone who has ever played a loot game a white knight or fanboy? How about to spend some time outside of destiny, inside the loot game genre. Besides 3 out of the 300 loot games out, they all have gear resets. Be it a new season, or expansions. If grinding loot in a game that's all about grinding loot is upsetting you. Then leave. The thought process behind "i know where the game is going and i don't like it, but ill keep playing anyway" just baffles me. Yall are -blam!-ing full blown anomalies. To yourself. To us.
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1 답변<At this point I almost feel sunsetting would've been "alright" if reissuing wasn't a thing. This just feels cheap. The new weapons introduced this season have already proven themselves worthy, especially the two swords. Why reissue others? More importantly, why not just raise the cap of the older guns? It makes no sense.>
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If Bungie actually were not lazy game developers they would have also given a massive overhaul to the weapon system and loot system that changes it drastically along with adding sunsetting. But no... smooth brains will continue to repeat the same tired line of "oThEr LoOt gAmEs Do iT" while failing to realise why it works in those games. Destiny does not have the RPG loot mechanics necessary to make sun-setting engaging and interesting, it just doesn't. All Beyond Light will be is grinding for the same perks on slightly different looking weapons and thats about it. That's boring and uninteresting. Can't wait to grind for another hand-cannon or any other gun with a reload perk and damage perk. Not to mention Luke Smith really likes using other games and forms of media for analogies not everyone can relate to... seems like he is creatively bankrupt and his decisions are based off of what other games and media do. Also, most of the content being released is just chore list grinds of tedium. They are not interesting in the slightest. Bungie aren't game developers anymore they are chore developers.
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30 답변Sadly you will attract a majority of said “white knights” by posting this and will find little solace in expressing these very valid feelings. The question becomes if this game isn’t about story, isn’t about the individual experience, isn’t about well written characters or any sort of character development, and focussed only on continual progress resets with said loot hunt being the only driving factor of the game, is that really a game at all? It reminds me of the lore section when Mara first encounters an awoken guardian, remarking she sees a greed in being “a better guardian” and we are that inside joke. We hunt for more constantly never being content with what we have, because what we have or are in the process of earning is continually being made worthless. A literal joke at the players expense in the lore itself. Finding new gear to kill things better in an endless loop never finding a plateau to rest at is not entertaining. This game has so much potential to be more, and coming from Reach to this series has me seriously confused as to what happened internally. The closest thing we can hope for rest wise is what happened to Destiny 1 and it’s end where our progress actually can matter because nothing is in the works to take it away.
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10 답변
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2 답변Amen, glory, and hallelujah, brother. But seriously, everything you've just said and more is the reason that I am soft-quitting (is that a thing? It is now) the game. By which I mean that I am not quitting outright, but I am no longer going to put effort into maintaining my character. I'm going to play my way using the guns I want to use in the activities I choose to play. I'm not going to buy Beyond Light or any future Season Passes and I certainly am not going to buy anything from Eververse. Bungie has gotten enough money from me at this point. When Bungie changes the game to the point where I can no longer play it on my terms, that's when I will hard-quit. But whether that is tomorrow or November 10th, Bungie isn't worth the energy it takes to care about their game anymore. I will say that it's worth staying on the forums for the superfans. The superfans who crawl out of the woodwork to defend Bungie are pretty funny. They sound like cultists blindly repeating the mantras their cult leader has ingrained in them. The forums are probably the most fun to be had from Destiny at this point.
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9 답변Sunsetting is a complete paradigm shift, you can't build a community around the idea that weapons and armors will be hard to get because we will keep them forever and then say that the weapons and armors do not matter. Peoples say that we will be able to keep our guns for a year, which is clearly not that bad. But remember that every items available during the current season is not caped at 1360, which means that if you got an old item like the horror's least or a pinnacle reward of an old season then they will be sunsetted before 4 seasons. It's highly possible that it will be still the same after Beyond Light, which means that if you get a season of arrival item as a reward in Beyond Light they will sunsetted before the release of the next september DLC.
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39 답변Let’s get 1 things straight. This is not a game ANYONE should play to feel like your “time is being respected” It’s not. It never has been and it never will be. Want proof? Elder cipher in HoW made you wait 2-6 days to progress. Taken King Swords required farming materials for hours and then waiting for the next Wednesday. Rise of Irons Sleeper Simulant required a public event on mars that only spawned once every 4-8 hours. Vanilla D2 burned our vaults. Forsaken made Vanilla armor useless and Shadowkeep made Forsaken armor useless. This is a game you play to grind until bungie invalidates the old stuff with new stuff. Always has been and always will be. If you don’t like that, that’s fine, but stop trying to change it for those of us that do like it. It was clearly made for players like us, not you.
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4 답변Just my opinion.... Sunsetting was introduced to remove the Not Forgottens from the field - those guns that were so much better than anything else... They were intentionally made both very strong and extremely hard to get - meaning the skill gate was ionosphere high and horizon wide. This was largely a gift to the streamer crowd and the elites. As soon as a certain percentage of the players had the gun, it had to be removed... to make way for yet another highly coveted/extremely powerful/very hard-to-get weapon. This is the roller coaster we ride... The broader "sunsetting" scheme was introduced to mask the true targets of their intentions.
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I agree bungie needs to respect their players time but you should think about your time as well. This is not meant as an insult but why waste 200 hours on an activity you didn't really like for a gun that has one special perk, that's ridiculous. Sure it's good but as you said its partly because autos are generally op right now and was bound to get retuned, nerfed, or in this case sunsetted. Let's also not forget sun setting is nothing new, that was how they got rid of the gallyhorn in d1, same thing was too powerful. I like that they are at least being transparent now about how long it will last, instead of just one day hey it's going away. This may be a good thing as weapon quests will probably have to be way less grindy because in the future people wont spend 200hrs on a gun they know is going away in three seasons. My point here is all of this is arbitrary, what guns are good, what you have to do to get it and how much time that will generally take is all just made up on a whim by bungie. Why not just give us fun shit to play with without all the tedious horsecrap. This is why I am really happy with this seasons exotics so far everybody has access to them, they are strong and fun to use. Screw your special little mountain top I'm not wasting my time running around with nothing but grenade launchers playing a douchey play style in crucible for it. That's dumb.
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-blam!- off. I like using my mtop in pve. Mind you I don't use it in pvp. If I want to use it all day in PVE who are you to say shit. "But it's an op weapon." You dumbass, end game is still heavily dictated by strategy. Mtop has not broken the game, at least the PVE game. "Then why do people use it so much?" Because it's one of the best out there. However, just because it's one of the best comparatively does not mean it's broken objectively. Regardless, Bungie can make alternatives without taking away options. There is no need to create a new default. In short, people do mind. And those people have a right to use mtop in pve and shit. If I want to use my mtop and anarchy till the day I die that's fine. It does not break the game. It does not 1 shot bosses. It has nice mechanics that I love. It does not ruin anyone's experience. So -blam!- you and your one sided view. Both sides can be appeased. You guys can get alternatives and my mtop can be kept in pve. Bungie can make alternatives to mtop for you to use. They can keep powercreep in check like they've always done: nerf anything too powerful.
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2 답변Serious Bungie! Why even grind for gear until D2 is done in 2022? All gear as of End of Season of Arrivals stops @ 1060! Who wants to play your game/grind for another 2 years when your gonna Sunset All our Stuff, Locking it out of Max Power! Serious Bungie?
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1 답변You're like a lot of people that play these kinds of games. You work hard to achieve what you were after, and then you move on to the next achievement. Your vault is like your resume. Unfortunately, the game is now designed so that you spend a massive amount of time and effort just getting back to where you used to be...where you started from before your achievements were devalued...which will happen every 3 months. I'm afraid if you don't like Crucible, this will not be a good game for you going forward.
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3 답변Yeah whoever makes decisions at bungie is a complete moron who clearly doesn’t even play the game
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9 답변If guns can be "reissued" with absolutely NO changes, then it isn't about "balance" or "power creep." It's about keeping people on a hamster wheel. For ANY gun that is reissued exactly the same as it was, the "old" versions should retroactively receive the same season cap as the new ones.
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[quote]With all the solstice discussions, one thing seems to have been forgotten by a lot of peeps. I wanna quickly share my thoughts on the overall loot/sunset idea and the execution by Bungie. To give you an example. Back in season of the drifter, they introduced a really cool, special and hard to obtain 600 rpm auto rifle. It was a rare gun with really amazing perk combos for pve and pvp. It was locked behind an arguably hard to farm activity called Reckoning Tier 3. You basically had to have a premade with decent ppl who know to use their support supers. Drop rates were low, until i had the curated one for pve and my personal pvp god roll, probably 200+ hours of Reckoning T3 have passed. I felt accomplished, it was a rough and boring grind but it felt good, having something special, something not everyone has right away with zero effort. After the auto rifle buff, i was one of the few ppl to be seen with this insane gun. Ppl were constantly asking me "where did you get that" "that gun is insane, it melts" "i'll grind for that one aswell". (It's out of question 600 rpm's need an adjustment, but that's not the point here) Going on, Bungie announces "sunsetting". The most dumb idea i've ever heard of and their whiteknights actually defend that stupidity. They actually do, that's beyond me, ngl. They should have just retired previously outstanding guns like mountaintop, recluse, wendigo, do what you want with those, idc. I grinded for them but they were static rolls with outstandingly good, op perks. Take them away, noone will mind. But here's the fun part, who am i hurting by using my outlaw + rampage austringer for multiple years/seasons. Why does my 400+ hour grinded for spare rations with rapid hit + multi killclip hurt the games economy, why does my curated gnawing hunger need to be sunset with regular perks? The answer is: Lazy game design. They are out of ideas, release boring guns and want to enforce us grinding for those and use those boring guns over our cool ones from older seasons. Also armor sunsetting. WHY??? Your regular player will never collect enough end game mats to perfect builds with the constant expiration date in his neck. NEVER. Already drifted away a bit, while just thinking that this idea is somewhat understandable and accaptable for a lot of ppl, my brain just hurts. Going on with my main idea of the post. So i grinded for that said gnawing hunger for 200+ hours, felt accomplished, felt special. Bungie now decides to sunset it and re-release it for everyone for free, to get a roll of that gun like every 15 minutes with an almost guaranteed drop rate via umbrals and world drops. Not only that. They also show the middle finger to everyone like me who grinded for THE EXACT SAME GUN with the EXACT SAME PERKS for 200+ hours by giving the new "free" version of the gun a higher power cap telling me that my previous effort is invalid. Just thrown into the bin. How is this idea even remotely understandable and appreciated by anyone with atleast some brain cells. Sorry for my long essay, i need to vent from time to time because this direction aint it. We need a new lead at Bungie, we need a new direction, actually respecting players time because what is a looter shooter without that? Just a shooter imo. Not even a good one, just a shooter with an annual reset like call of duty. The amount of joy this game gave me aside, i don't know if i can stick with this in the long run if their vision continues to go into that direction.[/quote] Best thing you can do for yourself, quit wasting all that time on this game I play maybe 1-2x a week. Not grinding shite out to have it nerfed, or rendered useless, could give a rip about pvp, they’ve made pve so brain numbing, which make the 1-2 times of play really hard to do
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4 답변You could get any lead developer you want. The fundamental aspects of game design must stay: [b]Sunsetting. Must. Always. Happen.[/b]
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2 답변Destiny is a slot machine game and relies on addiction. People who play this game are addicted and “need” that next drop. Two types of Players. Streamers who play for Money and addicts looking for their next hit. There is no middle ground in this game, it’s a poorly designed model for casuals who feel there is zero point and the grind is beyond a game.
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1 답변It’s pretty simple, bungie decided that we’ll keep playing for temp rewards instead of permanent ones All they care about is /timeplayed for more cash shop micros Agree that less valuable rewards are less compelling, also agree that retroactively making our gear rewards worse is a cheap move motivated solely by their greed
