Sunsetting gear is just another way, in the list of many, that says there is no ingenuity or passion at Bungie anymore when it comes to this franchise. Look no further than D1 when they made you earn an arc fatebringer or a solar vision of confluence and made them “exotic”. This group has stopped coming up with good ideas. They hide behind “power creep” as their term that they have given up on new ideas. Look no further than the seraph tower weapon rolls.

Problem: They've done this forever even in D1. Here is the cycle of when Gear Sun Setting happens... Well I need to get new gear, lets get new gear. Lets look on Light.gg and see what rolls the weapons can have.... Wow all of these rolls are shit and the archetypes of weapons are crap... [b](House of Wolves players will remember)[/b] Guess I'll make due with what I can get. *proceeds to just look for a reload perk and a damage perk for PvE* The only real thing people look for when getting new weapons... is a damage perk, and the best ones at that. Swashbuckler and Rampage are usually the best ones cause they activate on the spot- Kill Clip and Multi Kill Clip are some higher damage on reload but most over look that in favor of something that doesn't force them to stop shooting. Vorpal Weapon is nice on weapons that don't require a damage perk as they melt things fast enough like Sidearms and SMG's, Shotguns and Snipers. The only way you'll get people to use something different... is if you force them to use something different. How D2 works without Sun Setting... Oh look Spare Rations is pretty good. Outlaw... Rampage... why would I farm that when I have Midnight Coup... Why would I go get anything when I already farmed these god roll weapons that I already have. Oops they nerfed my god rolls, well now I [b]have[/b] to use something else. Let me just pull something out that I collected... kay I'll use this until it's nerfed. Oh that Seventh Serpeh Carbine looks cool... buuut I already have a god roll Auto so I don't need to use it. And now my God Roll is nerfed... guess I'll use that Carbine now... In D2, with how players are these days... no one wants to let go of their weapons. You can make new things till your blue in the face, and just making 'interesting' weapons won't make players use them. Making 'better' weapons will but then that Sun Sets weapons by default because power creep. Why use that when this is now the better option. You either make something that's identical to what already exists for players who don't have it yet... or you make something better and everyone goes after it and everything else is shelved. Interesting weapons don't always mean players will use them... Python is interesting, it's the only shotgun with Overflow- you never have to reload it and it gets One-Two-Punch. "But I already have a shotgun with One-Two-Punch..." <- Majority of players in Destiny. Unless some streamer/Youtube name starts saying "OMG THIS THING MELTS! GET IT NOW! IT IS THE BEST WEAPON EVER!" No one will leave their comfort zone. Sun Setting weapons forces players to leave their comfort zone to find something new to use. Other wise all these new weapons are judged on old weapons that are still viable and then never used until something better shows up.

Thing is. The more they try to make weapons interesting, the less ideas they have in the future to keep them interesting. Over time, guns will be so powerful and so unique, that Bungie won't be able to make loot interesting without breaking it completely. And then you'll have people complaining about OP'ness. This "sunsetting" is the only way they can make new loot interesting with their new seasonal model. Personally think they should go back to a yearly huge content update with maybe a seasonal event every 3-4 months. More time in between developing new story content will help maintain our weapon's lifespan to an acceptable level, but also give us something new to experiment with on a consistent basis. Sunsetting was basically a thing in D1, and it was paired with a full vendor restock every big update, and we loved it. It kept the game fun, and if we go back to that model, I guarantee D2 would be a billion times better.

The whole point of retiring gear is so they don't have to create more interesting gear. I thought that was obvious.

To difficult for bungie to do when all they have to do is reskin gear already in the game with different shaders and call it "new"

That is not the solution. The game has gear-focused progression. The only way to fix this is to completely rebuild the game and make it character-focused, with gear acting only to provide minor bonuses and provide a way for players to develop a playstyle and build around it. That means getting rid of Power. That means moving stats to the character and returning the Character Level system. That means setting all stats at two neutral levels. One for the beginning of the game and then one for entering the endgame, with the player earning points to increase the stats at every Level. That means introducing an interchangable point system at Max Level to indefinitely increase stats between expansions, allowing Bungie to create a combat challenge that players simply need to get stronger against before they can beat it. That means having players power up by actually playing the game however they like, using bounties as supplements to earn more XP and currency instead of solely being WHY you need to do the activities. That means being rewarded weapons and armor with randomised perks and stat boosts based on rarity, with their archetypes remaining. That also means Exotics will be the ultimate weapons, with Exotic Perks and having the highest stat boosts to encourage their use. With the Guardian controlling the RPG and the loot controlling the playstyle, there will be no sunsetting or removal of weapons. They have no excuse. EDIT: Extra point to be made. Bungie are so hellbent on the playerbase not being "done" with the game. They want people to keep playing, but they are going about it wrong by making the gear grind long and exhausting. With this system, players can reach a pinnacle level that will allow them just to play the game for fun, with obtaining loot and being able to completely rework their playstyle whenever they want, until Bungie introduces new content at yearly intervals.

My way of thinking of it is, it's hard to create difficult content when there's game breaking weapons in the game, and it's hard to create better weapons without creating power creep. While I know this game is about creating your "Cool alien killing badass guardian" there's also supposed to be some form of difficulty in the game. The devs have made that clear. If you want your cool power creep looter shooter go play Boarderlands where there's 0 difficulty and absolutely busted guns. Sunsetting gear forces you to drop what you're comfortable with and find something else. Yes you can always switch it up if you're "bored of your loadout" but for things like new raids most groups are going to run the most optimal loadout for the raid. Like now with GM nightfall most groups are going to be running Eriana's Vow. Bungie can't continue to simply make "Better weapons" and not get rid of what they have now because that creates power creep in a game that shouldn't have power creep for things such as high end pve event to keep difficulty, and PvP to keep things relatively tame. Now saying Destiny PvP is balanced is wrong, but we don't need even more broken guns ruining the feel of PvP either. Sunsetting weapons is good for the game. You get 9 months or so to play with your gun, then you move on and are forced to try something new for end game content rather than using your Mountain top or recluse for the 50th raid in a row. Or your Revoker to get your 50th flawless in trials. Sunsetting only doesn't allow you to use the gear in endgame content. You can use it in older activities such as strikes or regular PvP. I'll probably get a bunch of little babies replying to me saying things such as "Waaah I don't want the only gun I use to be taken away! I worked so hard doing an easy quest for it!!! It took so long to get a RANDOM DROP with 0 sentiment to it!!" Games update, deal with it.

If only Warframe had same artists and animators as Bungo has...

[b]The most broken pinnacle weapons were the ones that got entirely new perks. In other words, the ones that were built like exotics. On the flip side, the pinnacles that either had a perk that put a spin on an already existing legendary trait, or a second unique perk that augmented an already good perk turned out wonderfully powered.[/b] There are of course exceptions; Wendigo's Explosive Light is entirely unique, but that gun isn't overpowered. Still, it's on the more powerful side of pinnacle weapons. Oxygen's perk is in theory very good, but the gun remains lackluster nonetheless. [spoiler]Wendigo is successful because the perk is situational and very powerful, the weapon is actually weaker than a normal grenade launcher while it isn't active. When we looked at other pinnacle weapons with entirely unique perks, their perk is either intrinsic to the weapon or is incredibly easy to proc, meaning their power boost is always active (Mountain Top and Recluse, Arguably Luna's Howl pre-nerf, back when it was actually good in PvE as well). These unique perks are just, by design, more powerful than the other two style of pinnacle perks: Altered Legendary Trait or Enhanced Legendary Trait. So it stands to reason that the weapons these unique perks come on, should not be able to maintain their unique perk constantly, or that perk should function more like a passive trait that doesn't directly enhance the weapon.[/spoiler] [spoiler]In theory, Mountaintop is no better than militia's birthright except in range and spike grenades; However, Mountaintop is considerably easier to use. This doesn't mean it's more powerful, just that players will be drawn to easy to use weapons. For this reason, Mountaintop is actually a very good pinnacle weapon, even if it stands out above the rest. If any nerf should be dealt to mountaintop, it would be replacing spike grenades with something else. The recluse has an inherently flawed perk; It's massive damage buff is basically always active, and so it doesn't matter how little this damage buff is: If it is at the level or greater than kill clip or rampage, Recluse will always be chosen over other primary options. The way to fix Master of Arms isn't to reduce it's potency (although dealing crit damage on body shot is always dangerous) but rather make it harder to achieve that potency; I would recommend Master of Arms having it's duration extended to 7 seconds, but it only triggers when you get a kill with a different weapon. This means Recluse cannot activate its own damage buff and so this buff won't always be active, thus bringing the weapon more in line with Wendigo and Explosive Light, but for PvP.[/spoiler] [spoiler]The Oxygen Scout rifle is actually very well designed as a pinnacle weapon, and will undoubtedly see more use when scout rifles receive an inevitable PvE buff. Just imagine if it's perk was on a handcannon instead. Weapon type makes a huge difference. Other pinnacle weapons that enhance existing perks with a second one are always awesome, but not broken; Consider Breakneck and Redrix's Claymore. Lastly, we have the weapons that put a spin on already existing legendary perks. This model is inherently interesting but not more powerful than already existing perks, truly bringing us the ideal of a pinnacle weapon. This includes Hush, which is a toss on Archers Tempo, Loaded Question, which is a toss on High Impact Reserves/Opening Shot (more like a mix of both), 21% Delirium, which mixes up the dynamics and ease of use of Rampage, and appropriately diminishes the damage buff offered by 3 stacks of kills. Revoker has a very powerful toss on Muligan, and it's cool to see how even garbage perks can be made pinnacle-tier when put on the right arch-type with the right stats. [/spoiler] Personally, I think bungie should move away from entirely unique perks with pinnacle weapons and instead stick to the models of "Alter or Enhance existing perks". Here are a few ideas of how to do that, just because I like offering specific solutions as well as breaking down the issue: A Gambit Fusion Rifle [spoiler]This would put a spin on surrounded. Ordinarily a high impact/low charge speed fusion rifle, when 3 or more enemies are nearby, this weapon would gain a massive boost to charge speed instead of damage. Either threat detector or possibly subsistence could be a supporting perk on this weapon.[/spoiler] A Vanguard Rocket Launcher [spoiler]Rocket Launchers have never been a damage weapon, so lets not try to turn them into something their not. Give it a large blast radius and then a variant of multikill clip: Instead of gaining damage with every kill after reloading, it's blast radius increases. Ambitious Assassin would be a natural supporting perk for this weapon. [/spoiler] A Crucible Sword [spoiler]This one would enhance the already existing perk En Garde! Ordinarily a sub-par crucible sword perk, this weapon's pinnacle status could grant something akin to the following: "Increased Movement Speed and Range while En Garde is active". Could even possibly give it an innate boost to draw speed, almost like quick draw (but on a sword).[/spoiler]

People always talk about power creep but this is a power fantasy game... The devs being scared of it does nothing to help...

Luke smith needs to head in the sunset

Sorry huge wall of text there but you’re probably missing the same point as a number of other people. If the do not buff/nerf or Sunset many pieces of shit will continue practicing then oral fixation on their coveted ‘god roll’ mind benders or spare ration. Due to the guns being fantastic in both their archetype and prospective environment people will refuse to use anything else

The Warmind perks are interesting. People just refuse to let go and move on. They spent lots of hours developing thin new interesting system and barely any of us use it....why? Because my old gear is good enough, why try anything else? Every gear based game retires gear anytime a level cap is increased. That's what keeps people grinding. We may hate this season but if the bunkers provided the only gear that was high enough light we would be grinding those bunkers.

someone please humour me what do you mean by sunset gear!!

More unique perk combinations is what excites me. I was excited for the Seventh Seraph SAW because of Firing Line and Field Prep. I was excited about Line in the Sand because of Rapid Hit/Firing Line. I was excited about Overflow/One-Two Punch on Python. This season's weapons have been overall 'meh' to me outside of a few outliers in the field of 'cool perk combos'. Like god you know what would be great? An Auto Rifle that could roll with Dragonfly! A Hand Cannon that could come with Firing Line. A Pulse Rifle that could come with No Distractions. A Sidearm that could come with Explosive Payload. An SMG that could drop with Rangefinder. A Bow that could drop with Rapid Hit/Archer's Tempo. A Shotgun that could drop with Trench Barrel AND One-Two Punch. A Sniper that could roll with Firing Line AND Vorpal Weapon. A Fusion that could roll with literally anything worthwhile. A Rocket Launcher with Vorpal Weapon/Cluster Bombs. Like there's so much potential in perk combos that they just won't take that would make the playerbase SUPER hyped to grind for those weapons.

I’ve never understood why Bungie doesn’t get rid of the whole archetype thing and just start playing with stats of weapons more. An example would be a max impact handcannon with decent fire rate but just horrible range. Make it possible to two tap people with if your right in their face. Idk why every weapon that’s released has to be almost identical in stats to what we already have there’s very little variation in the archetypes.