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1/27/2020 1:44:20 PM
78
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I meant "What is it that was so horrible about being in the EU that made Britain the last to join and the first to leave." Even though leaving is going to kneecap your economy in ways that I don't think you guys are really prepared for. I think you've overblown the problem, and failed to appreciate the benefits. But....reality is going to come crashing home soon.
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[quote]And the Brits lose the economic and trade benefits. Rule in Hell or serve in Heaven??[/quote] That assumes that the EU is heaven and independence is Hell. The inverse is more likely. I would not consider a strive to freedom "hell". More like: escaping the ruling class of Hell to climb the ladder to Heaven. The question is of freedom. They can renegotiate benefits. The people voted a long time ago to leave. To ignore results of an election or oppose it is not short of a dictatorship. I am here waiting for Frexit to gain traction.
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[quote]It’s an analogy. Power and control, at what cost?[/quote] And the analogy was not representative of the case at all. The question is not a vile use of power, it is the about the people's decision to make choices for themselves and have freedom. To give power to the individual rather than the collective. We did a similar thing with the American Revolution. We wanted control over our own lives and not for other countries to make our laws for us. We did not want to be taxed without proper representation. We wanted freedom for ourselves.
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Exaggeration (hyperbole) can clarify a comparison in ways that trying to get a one-to-one match can’t. The point is: [i]Is it better to have power over a bad situation, or have to take orders in a good one. [/i] The answer comes down to ego. Some have personalities such that not having power in a situation is intolerable. They rather control something broken, than take orders in a favorable situation. Others are willing to forgo that power in a setting where everyone lives better.
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[quote]Exaggeration (hyperbole) can clarify a comparison in ways that trying to get a one-to-one match can’t. The point is: [i]Is it better to have power over a bad situation, or have to take orders in a good one. [/i] The answer comes down to ego. Some have personalities such that not having power in a situation is intolerable. They rather control something broken, than take orders in a favorable situation. Others are willing to forgo that power in a setting where everyone lives better.[/quote] Who said that Brexit is a bad situation? It's great. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin What you are asking is for security in exchange for freedom. That bargain will [i]always[/i] lead to disaster. Freedom is what matters here. Freedom and the rights of the individual are what's at stake. And in the end, only the rulers live better in that situation. History is our guide. There is no State that has ended well where security was valued over freedom.
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I value [i]Liberty.[/i] Which is a balance of Rights and Responsibility. Or as we say in Zen, “Freedom can only exist within Structure.” Otherwise you simply have chaos. You have anarchy where only the Strong and the Ruthless are “free”. We all sacrifice parts of our Freedom to live in a civilized society. The issue is what are you giving up, and what are you getting in return. Political Freedom isn’t much help if you’re starving or you can’t earn a living. Thomas Jefferson himself understood this. The question with Brexit is that I don’t think many Brits really understand what they are giving up in exchange for being free of them[i]responsibilities [/i] that comes with being part of the EU. Like Republican Unilateralism here in the US, I believe they are clinging to a illusion of power and stature that doesn’t reflect global reality on 2020. The US is a global power, but we are no longer a superpower. The U.K. is a European power but is no longer a global power, and the Brexiteers are about to have a really rude awakening to that fact.
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But when the structure has to much in it, freedom finds less places to be. A structure is all well and good as long as the structure and government do not become the most important thing. The reason the structure exists is for freedom. What the EU is is too much structure. Brexit is clearing out a few rooms to have more room for freedom. But that does not mean that the structure is now a skeleton and going to fall. Just less cluttered.
