JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

데스티니 가디언즈

데스티니 가디언즈에 관한 모든 것을 토론해봅시다.
작성자: Lost Sols 1/10/2020 3:22:37 PM
215

No, the game isn't "too focused on casuals" and it's time to stop blaming regular players for everything in this game.

So I've been seeing a lot of "casuals are ruining (insert activity) in Destiny" takes again the last week or two and then yesterday I saw the latest Forbes article from Tassi on the subject and think it's time to point out a few things. To start, for anyone who didn't read it, I'm not linking it, look out up if you want, but the gist of it was whether or not Destiny is being catered too much towards "casuals" (and he chose to say "again"), as well as bringing up a tweet thread by Gladd complaining about the same thing and how the game needs to be more hardcore because poor Gladd isn't able to make enough content. This pile is deep. I'm going to start with wondering why a Forbes writer is posting a tale of woe about a dude who is one of the raunchiest members of the community and the streamer equivalent of a 90's shock-jock radio host, with content about violating himself with hamsters and posting from his Summit visit about swinging his junk in his hotel window. Real classy dude that totally we should feel bad the game is too easy for him. But beyond that, the whole "casual" as a slur garbage is the gaming equivalent of classism and grade school indoctrination into right wing hate culture. Playing a game for a living doesn't make anyone more "hard core" or more of a "gamer" than someone who can only play when life lets them throughout the week and this constant use of "casuals" to demean and dismiss, as well as blame all the game's "problems" is a load of crap. Then there's the fact that, I don't know about anyone else, but I know I'm tired of listening to the Gladds and Gothalions of the community always ripping "casuals", the game and Bungie the second everything isn't 100% about them when the high profile influencers have driven the lion's share of development feedback the last 4 years. The game that exists today is massively a product of their criticisms and complaints and it's garbage that they pretend that they're not culpable for where things stand. So let's backtrack -again-, because it seems like history gets rewritten a lot. Destiny 1 was a great game, but one that Bungie felt needed a fresh start and a new game for D2 and despite all the negative takes that piled on after the first month of vanilla D2, it did get a lot right, starting with investment. It was a game that allowed players to come and go and not feel left behind, and also allowed us to play multiple characters with ease and constantly change not only characters, but loadouts and play styles. It also had true endgame difficulty content that was deeply challenging with prestige difficulty raids and a sandbox that made content much more challenging overall than we have now. Certainly the game was not perfect, and both PvP and PvE needed to be better overall, but there was a really good foundation there that ultimately never got a chance to hit it's stride because a month in, all the big name content creators and high level PvP players went completely toxic on the game and started all the "dead game" crap and making anti-Destiny/Bungie content because it got easy likes and views. So let's look at where the game is today with the complaints about not enough or drip-fed content, and underwhelming exotic quests and look back at what that massive backlash led to, which was the studio basically stopping development on a lot of future content and moving essentially the entire studio to making massive changes and rebooting a game that was itself a reboot. The massive changes to the sandbox, leveling, investment, economy, etc came at a cost. Instead of building onto what existed and adding more weapons, armor, strikes, missions, etc, resources went to the reboot; and certainly there was still the content that had already been started and was in the pipeline with Gambit, Warmind and Forsaken, but there's no doubt that the deeper we got into year 2, the more we caught up to the effects of diverted resources year 1. Then we had year 2 itself which was the baby of all that hate and toxicity from the "hard core" and influencer crowd. It was ultra punishing in leveling, in investment, in grinding, in RNG and in PvP as well with the high profile PvP influencers pressuring Bungie into removing skill from matchmaking. And all the big names patted themselves on the back because they had "saved Destiny". Until around Season of the Drifter when everyone else checked out of PvE and PvP because we couldn't take it anymore and wanted a game, not another job. Oh, and another casualty of overall lack of development resources in year 2 was hard mode raids. I could be wrong, but I would be shocked if the decision to go with one difficulty wasn't affected by trying to catch up elsewhere. So then what happened? Bungie not only had to use more resources to once more make big changes to PvP, investment, economy, armor, etc, but they also split with Activision due to friction from the way year 2 devolved. So here we are in year 3 and Bungie have tried to keep the content structure that the community and the big names have said they like with seasonal content and new things every few weeks/months. We've also seen new arena after new arena instead of strikes and updates to older content like planet vendors, because this was also feedback that was given on what the "community" wanted more of. So here we are in year 3 with Bungie still playing catch-up and trying to get to the point where they can just build forward without constantly having to backtrack and reboot and it's not surprising that content is light at this point when you look at the big picture and how much development time was lost that could/should have been more new content we're getting now instead of what was spent on rebuilding then. Does anyone believe that Bungie doesn't want factions back in the game? The fact that we have nothing yet regarding them speaks volumes to how big a game of catch-up Bungie is playing, and certainly that is on the decision makers at the studio as well, and there have been calls that missed the mark, but there's also still been a lot of good and at some point the studio needs to say this is the game we believe in and stick to their vision. The game isn't too "casual". It certainly could use more legitimate endgame, but that doesn't mean the game shouldn't be accessible, and even the raids that exist are now leveling content vs true endgame because of the worlds first races. So once more content that could be more challenging that isn't has nothing to do with "casual" players and everything to do with the high profile players. The game needs a lot, but at this point what it needs is new weapons and armor, new strikes, factions, more actual story, etc, and hard modes for existing content like raids. What it doesn't need is Paul Tassi, Gladd, Gothalion or other big names pressuring Bungie into once more making infrastructure changes to make the game more "hard core". We literally went through this with vanilla D2 into Forsaken and I honestly can't believe we're seeing the same garbage now. Crapping on regular players to make the game better for content creators didn't work the first time, let's not keep making the same mistakes. The game can have content for those players without sacrificing everyone else and if players are willing to take a deep breath and give Bungie time to just build forward, I think we'll see a game that everyone can be happy with and love.

게시물 작성 언어:

 

다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

  • 작성자: A KOOL POP TART 3/12/2020 8:19:44 PM
    [quote]right wing hate culture[/quote] Silence liberal

    게시물 작성 언어:

     

    다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

  • From Tassi's article: [quote]But top level players, [b]the types you want to watch on Twitch[/b] doing something crazy have…nothing. [/quote] I don't watch people play, heck I don't have time [i]to[/i] play. Destiny has become too convoluted, few quests, goals, rewards can be obtained without massive hours of play or constantly having to "look it up" online. Some stuff is truly cryptic and make me feel I'm either wasting my time or that I'm an idiot... If the latter is the case, thanks Destiny for pointing it our lol. Love game mechanics, shooting and environment, humongous thumbs up to all Bungie artists. Unfortunately, lack of meaningful story, constant changes, feeling of always being behind has just turned me off. Destiny is best to shoot the breeze with online buddies and for people who can afford many hours doing it.

    게시물 작성 언어:

     

    다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

    1 답변
    • Huh? Isn't this the guy who cries about better players in pvp and thinks casuals should get separate mm? The same casuals that complain every time an exotic quest has pvp no matter how easy or even some pve that requires a little brain power? Like the leviathans bow strike that was easy af yet still had casuals saying how hard it was? That feedback is directly responsible for how short and easy devils ruin was. Same with content, bungie cant drop challenging things like reckoning without crybabies whining, they had to change the forges when they launched to appease casuals, that feedback is why it isnt possible to fail things like menagerie or sundial. Casuals have been whining things are too hard and bungie have responded by making the game simpler and easier, if 25 kills in pvp or gambit for the saint 14 quest had some of you in tears you need to find a game where you cant lose. Lego games are a good start. Stop enabling bungie to put out piss easy content that for these past 2 seasons have been less then anything we've seen. Either casuals have dumbed down the game or bungie is being beyond greedy and/or incompetent with undying and dawn.

      게시물 작성 언어:

       

      다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

      1 답변
      • Arnt most of these game problems due to the casuals leaving ?

        게시물 작성 언어:

         

        다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

      • And let us not forget simple economics - the majority of players - aka as the guys paying thus game - are what is usually referred to as “casuals”... So tailoring your game to the 1% Hardcores is like Pampers would start changing their diapers to be used by pet pigs - might be happening here and there but will certainly not pay for your bills when the month is over..,

        게시물 작성 언어:

         

        다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

      • 작성자: Sunrie 1/10/2020 8:40:01 PM
        Left wing hate culture. They started separate but equal, opposed civil rights laws, Jim Crow, slavery, the k k k and demands all cultures remain separated

        게시물 작성 언어:

         

        다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

        52 답변
        • Right wingers hella mad in the comments lmao

          게시물 작성 언어:

           

          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

        • 작성자: d3benway 1/13/2020 6:00:42 PM
          This is hilarious, they all cried and cried about “casuals” when Y1 didn’t have enough content so Bungie turned 180 in Forsaken and made everything a grindfest because “hardcore”, now that’s turned out to be no fun - who could have predicted - it’s back to “because casuals”.

          게시물 작성 언어:

           

          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

        • Also side note : "right wing hate culture"? Last I checked, it wasn't the ones on the right throwing tantrums, making everything about identity politics, and creating a culture that is too immature to hear opposing views and wants the world catered to em.

          게시물 작성 언어:

           

          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

          58 답변
          • Everything that is currently going on with the game is bungie's own doing.

            게시물 작성 언어:

             

            다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

          • this is not casuals', or hard core players fault. I an an "adult" world, this is the fault of whoever is in charge of making changes in Destiny. I am not in charge, none of us in charge (and yeah, not even streamers). The fault has been and always will be the decision makers', and guess we know who that is?

            게시물 작성 언어:

             

            다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

          • [quote]and if players are willing to take a deep breath and give Bungie time to just build forward, I think we'll see a game that everyone can be happy with and love.[/quote] They've had since September 9th, 2014.

            게시물 작성 언어:

             

            다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

            7 답변
            • The only thing Bungie is too focused on is Eververse

              게시물 작성 언어:

               

              다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

            • Gladd mostly plays on PC which is basically easy mode for PvE. His views don't matter anywhere.

              게시물 작성 언어:

               

              다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

              36 답변
              • Lost, you have some interesting points, but your political plug in here was not the place to do it.

                게시물 작성 언어:

                 

                다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

              • I think it's more of Bungie not knowing what kind of game they wanted Destiny to be and trying to please to many different gamers. Now, that Bungie have found the direction, folks are going live with the decision the devs made from here on out. I know if this was the direction from the start, Destiny would have never made it this long. It may have had an Anthem type debut.

                게시물 작성 언어:

                 

                다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                1 답변
                • 작성자: god2kill 1/12/2020 12:39:32 PM
                  But the game is leaning towards casuals heavily. Luna vs Recluse. Easy weapons to achieve. Then look at all of the cake weapons they hand people. Jotunn. Why aim when you can just track? Truth. Why aim when you can just track? Erentil. Why aim when you can track? The list can continue... D1 was skill based. Not matchmaking... just gameplay. Sure a couple weapons had better aim assist and what not. But for the most part anyone could beat anyone if they knew what they were doing. It came down to gun skill more than anything. D2 is all about perks and who’s using the cheesier gun. Period. D1 has a meta. Sure. But D2 is meta cranked up to 1,000. Either you’re in meta in D2 or you get rolled. Period. The entire game isn’t catered to casuals. But for the most part... it is. And I don’t blame Bungie. They need the people for the revenue stream. So I’m not mad at them. But that doesn’t mean I’m happy with the way things are. For the future... you might not want to treat the forums like you’re tagging the Great Wall of China. Man it’s hard to get through your War and Peace sized diatribes sometimes.

                  게시물 작성 언어:

                   

                  다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                  5 답변
                  • Youre like the evil stepbrother of Kellygreen2...

                    게시물 작성 언어:

                     

                    다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                    3 답변
                    • 작성자: biggestLOUser 1/11/2020 3:19:53 PM
                      Streamers are entitled to their opinions, just as the most casual of casual players are to theirs. Bungie’s problem has always been (IMO) that they don’t seem to know how to properly frame those opinions. Of course someone who has consistent access to highly skilled and willing players will experience this game in a completely different light than “normal” players, and it’s impossible to create a game that will cater to both simultaneously without sacrificing a little on both ends. IMO, while (as I’ve stated elsewhere) Bungie has at a minimum given us a reason to at least boot the game up (unlike its competitors). They most certainly have a ways to go in making the endgame grind worthwhile for everyone, and that is not limited to Vendor / World refreshes, Strike & Nightfall Loot, Raid Loot, and sandbox tuning. “Johnny 2 sticks” is just as important to a game as the 3000 hour player, and honestly I believe they are starting to realize that, which is why many of their quests / grinds have morphed from a “high skill” for acquisition scenario to a “put the time in” scenario. Which I believe is the best course, and while it doesn’t allow the streamers to “peacock” as much, gives ample belief to that parent who can only play an hour or two here and there that they can acquire almost anything this game has to offer. Because let’s face it, this game functions the best when there is the largest possible player pool.

                      게시물 작성 언어:

                       

                      다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                    • Hardcores think casuals are ruining the game, casuals think hardcores are ruining the game. Few people realize the game needs a healthy balance between the two. Destiny will never become great again while the community is so split. Bungie is also to blame, I still can't believe they won a community support award... What was that even for? Going into every thread and CTRL+V'ing "we are listening"? Can't rely on a split community and can't rely on morons who come to work in their pajamas.

                      게시물 작성 언어:

                       

                      다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                      7 답변
                      • 작성자: RussellMania 1/11/2020 10:51:11 PM
                        I don't know what's more egregiously stupid... Saying that Paul Tassi (who is a well-known SJW) is perpetuating "right-wing hate culture"... Or claiming that Year 1 (one of the most overall disappointing video game launches in recent memory which saw 85% of the player base leave in three months) had a good foundation and was only disliked by content creators, and Year 2 (which launched with the most successful DLC since TTK) was the beginning of the downfall. Forsaken literally saved the franchise from the brink of death after Year 1. I think you have some things backwards... Well, everything...

                        게시물 작성 언어:

                         

                        다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                        4 답변
                        • People who are good at things = right wingers? Well. Something we finally agree on 😉

                          게시물 작성 언어:

                           

                          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                        • You’re a casual yourself so I would stop.

                          게시물 작성 언어:

                           

                          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                        • I stopped reading at right wing hate culture.

                          게시물 작성 언어:

                           

                          다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                          4 답변
                          • I’m glad prestige raids are gone because the provided nothing but cosmetics. Factions are pointless because there’s no world pvp. Basically we just need better content not suedo horde modes. I think you just miss destiny 1 too much so go back and play that.

                            게시물 작성 언어:

                             

                            다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                            3 답변
                            • 작성자: Ken_Malibu 1/11/2020 11:15:58 AM
                              Fact is Bungie make the final decisions. Blame who you like for influencing them but a good game designer has faith in their convictions and don't change them every 6 months.

                              게시물 작성 언어:

                               

                              다른 사용자들을 존중해주세요. 게시물을 제출하기 전에 한 숨 돌리고 운영 정책을 검토하세요. 취소 수정 화력팀 생성하기 게시

                              2 답변
                              1 2 3 4 5 6 7
                              회원님은 해당 콘텐츠를 볼 수 없습니다.
                              ;
                              preload icon
                              preload icon
                              preload icon