The archetype is broken Where are other fusion rifle classes if nothing is wrong with High Impacts? -A devoted Fusion user on his Warlock that doesn't give himself too much credit for the basic skills needed to use the weapon effectively

The moment to nerf something is when stats demonstrate a weapon is overperforming compared to most weapons, not when a minority of players gather up in an attempt to impose their opinion that "X is OP" just because it excels at a subjectively-selected aspect. However high people want to claim Erentil's range is, it isn't sufficient alone to make Erentil a Top-Tier weapon according to stats.

OP Comment is accurate. Fusion rifles are seldom seen; however hand cannons and shotguns are ubiquitous. https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights ^ Weapon usage stats

95% Shotguns versus 5% Fusions. This is what i see in my matches nowadays.

I commented about special weapons and how they're used/ abused in crucible a while back. Here's what I said: Shotguns, snipers and fusion offer the most readily accessible lethal killing tools in crucible. Most players fall into the average category with these weapons. In the rare instances you'll run into a master of these weapons where they excel above everyone else. For a sniper its easy to avoid as you just need to stay out of open areas where line of sights are plentiful or choke points where you know someone's head is going to be. For Shotgun just avoid close quarters and corners where they can close the distance before you can counter. For Fusion if someone is a true master with fusions, there is nothing you can do to avoid a defeat. They are the highest risk/ reward of the 3 special weapons. With the risk being minimized by how good that player is with them. This makes the reward seem so easy, but it really isn't. I started using the fusion from GoS. Got a great roll with high impact reserves, under pressure, accelerated coils and range master work. The coils drops the charge time to 500. Because we start with 2 rounds, the gun automatically defaults with the pressure perk of increase accuracy and stability and a higher impact from the reserve perk. The range MW gives it a lethal shot from longer distances. It functions like a precision frame but with the handling and charge of a rapid frame instead.

As someone with more Fusion Rifle kills than any other weapon class in D1, I will say that they are much, much more forgiving to use since the switch to hit-scan with Forsaken and adding no backup plan to so many also changed the dynamic greatly. All that said, I also very rarely see players actually running them and I would say I see more Wizened Rebukes than Erentil (I personally like Wizened more as well), and shotguns are at the most broken levels of use verses other special weapons they've ever been. Shotguns also have the best range/handling they've ever had as a class with multiple types being as good or better than Felwinter's was in it's D1 heyday. As others have echoed, it's more about shotgun users being upset they can't just ape every engagement and have to put a little more thought into when to push that tilts players.

I grinded out the entire PVP ritual quest the other day and didn't see a single erentil, or any other fusion for that matter. You know what I did see? Lord of Wolves. Lots and lots of Lord of Wolves. I don't care what anyone says, that gun is still broken. At anything resembling mid-close range you literally can't beat it. If you're really lucky, you can hope to trade but that's it. If your opponent can even aim vaguely at you, you're insta-melted.

So what’s the best roll for PVP? I have several and used them all and obviously range is important seeing it’s like a sniper. Is it back up plan or high impact reserves? Honestly I have one with ridiculous range and rampage I really like.

What REALLY concerns me is the first and only time I have seen a Bungie community manager on here, Cozmo, I believe was not to say we're working on the massive overuse of Shotguns, oh no, but to say he's passing on feedback about Fusions being too powerful to the Devs. The mind boggles. He might as well pass on to the Devs that Hunter's need more buffs for PvP - it's that level of wrong.

I use the IB fusion, which is basically the same as Erentil. There are definitely tons of shotguns users out there. A lot of snipers out there as well. I personally don't see as many fusion users. Fusions do take some skill to use - learn the timing, aim at their knees, stay within your optimum range. I don't know why people hate on them so much either. They are good, but they're not any more ridiculous than the range & AA on the slug shotguns, or the AA on snipers, All of which take their own skill sets to use.

I played a TON of IB last week, having the week off of work I grinded out the bounty on all 3 characters and in nearly every match 9 or 10 of the players were sporting max range shotguns. That's why there's so much hate for fusions because it's the natural counter to shotguns. A good fusion user, who knows how to pre-charge it, can melt shotty users well before they can get into range. As long as shotguns are so overused there will always be people complaining about fusions.

[quote]I see almost no one using it, i see a whole lot of shotguns. I think most players don’t have the skill and timing to use a fusion rifle so they bag on it whenever they see it. Meanwhile they are a stompe hunter sliding 20 feet shotgunning everyone in site Edit: I’m so happy to see my fusion brothers in here showing their support, you’ve given me the confidence to use my erentil again. I don’t care what anyone says *grows angel wings and floats into the sky with erentil in hand, mapping someone from above the clouds* Edit 2: Just is we’re clear, I’m but saying nerf shotguns. I just think people are complaining about erentil for nothing. It’s not even something you even typically come across in a match. The criticism of the range is fair but keep in mind the grouping is random so a lot of those long distance kills are part luck. I’d honestly just rather just have them remove erentil from the game instead of nerfing fusion range as a whole. The community could easily find another fusion to use.[/quote] I dont have an issue with fusions just high impact frames

Just waiting until everyone starts complaining about sidearms....

Checked your stats. You wouldn’t see it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"I don't see it, therefor it's not real/not a problem" is a childs argument to explain how their parents disappear when they close their eyes. Erentil has too much potential range and accuracy coupled with TTK, and combined with janky special ammo economy in the Crucible, can be easily spammed for convenient kills. Balance topics are not mutually exclusive. One can just as easily describe a fusion issue, and a shotgun issue. Both can exist at the same time. You can have the Hunter with Stompies welded to their legs spamming their shotgun, and you can have the player who has fusion scavenger as a permanent perk spamming Erentil for an entire match.

I did comp not too long ago. For some reason, I was matching players who literally hadn't left comp in months. I tracked them and everyrhing. That was my first PvP session of the season. Not sure what matchmaking was doing there. Wanna know the trend? If the opposing teams had an Erentil, I had to put one on. For most maps, the range of my Blast Furnace was irrelevant so "backing up" didn't really matter. Erentil could reach that far. And then with the HC range nerf, HC TTK values can't compete with the charge time of an Erentil at it's consistent 40 meter mill range. So that's not a counter either. At 40 meters our rapid fire pulses also experience damage and accuracy dropoff as well, so that's not a great option either. All on console by the way. Then console movement is WAY MORE restrictive than PC. On PC, we can pop 180s and dip on a dime. Can't do that on console. So yeah. Erentil's range is wack. It needs a cap. But if I'm smart, I can play like an absolute pansy and just challenge them when they're out of ammo. Stupid, boring way to play. I don't think "not challenging at all" should be the best counter to anything (If anything that should be an indication as to how powerful it is or how weak primaries have become in comparison), but it is what it is. The bigger issue is backup plan. I'm personally tired of sliding around a corner and sniping a guy at 35 meters and trading simply because he had backup plan. If the main weaknesses and counters of Erentil are meant to be revolved around its charge time, audio queues, and visual queues, there should not be a perk that removes all 3 of those with no drawbacks. It can STILL consistently OHK past 35 meters with backup plan. That's past HC and rapid fire pulse damage dropoff points. That's insane. As for your shotty arguement, it's a bad one. Usage cannot be the ONLY indication of power. The meta is aggressive teamfire, so shotguns and snipers pair the best. A good player can also use a shotgun to quickly clean someone up. Can't do that with a fusion. Shotguns also have much more utility within the vertical space when compared to fusions. Several maps also have tight corners, favoring shotties over fusions. There are also much more effective shotguns than there are fusions. Shotguns can also be in the kinetic slot, allowing for more build variety than fusions. The list goes on. Every single one of these things skews usage towards shotguns, and they've been nerfed twice. Range reduced, effectiveness of full shoke reduced. Usage cannot be the only indication of what it OP. The most popular? Meta? Team-based meta? Sure. Not what's OP, unless it's so OP that it is universally the best on all maps in all situations, like Lord of Wolves on PC before the nerf or old school Mythoclast.