“To solve a problem one must first recognize it.” You are probably not as good as you think you are at crucible. I searched through your replies to people and you just call everyone cowards while refusing to accept that you might be the issue. Sure spawns suck but that alone does not decide a game.

roaming supers/regen is broken, and heavy needs re-balancing, but outside of that I do feel like the weapon meta feels pretty versatile. I feel like i can be competitive with a lot of different weapons, and sub-classes. I know OHK weapons feel frustrating, but the alternative was a really dry crucible back in D2 Y1 that people did not like. Its about proper counter play and map awareness.

[quote]We were winning my most recent game at one point 70 to 58. Then the crappy spawns kept flipping over and over allowing the other team to basically attack us from the front and behind despite the fact that we weren't pressing at all beyond mid map. Every death after the 5 minute mark was an OHK from heavy, OEM shotty titans, or supers. Spawn flip never favored my team once. Next game? Killed with a wardcliff inside of a minute. OEM titans camping corners with dusk rock like crazy. Enemy team camping heavy and we don't get a single spawn flip despite being pressed back into it. I'm just gonna emote randomly for PvP matches now. There is no glory, fun, joy, or challenge to this. Everybody uses the same weapon and that weapon always OHKs. I would never willingly play this crap mode if I weren't forced to by this game's lazy developers. I hate that EVERY exotic quest requires me to go into this horrible game mode. I would buy shadow keep and every seasonal DLC if it were guaranteed that I never have to do crucible again to complete a quest. As it stands, I believe Bungie does this on purpose because 90% of the community would abandon the mode of they weren't forced to play it for all the broken, OP weapons it gives you. That whole game mode is trash. Whoever says this is the best PvP has ever been is smoking rocks or eating lead paint (probably both). Crucible in this game is in the worst place I've ever seen it and I've been around since Taken King D1. I literally, outwardly hate it when Bungie FORCES me to do this to finish quests. It's absurdly unnecessary fluff to expand and ruin what would otherwise be a fun and engaging quest.[/quote] Pvp is fun. If they remove eye mask or make other exotics actually viable then it’s one of the better states it’s been in. Side arms need a massive buff also but apart from the striker never ending super and the eye mask. It’s been worse .

Its better than its been since early RoI. Changes that are needed to make it s-teir. All roaming supers need way less armor. Power needs to spawn less. Or for the whole team once. OEM needs a rework. That helment is far to cheesy and brakes the game to wear one guy is soloing a team with a recluse/shotgun/ etc. It gets rid of the whole you have recover your health after a duel and allows you to chain kills together for almost forever. the fact that its been this strong for this long and they are not touching is pretty good sign that this game is headed in a bad direction. If they could nail these changes then PVP would be great. But I already know they are going to mess it up.

Or you can take the suck out and not whine about it. Can it be better? Sure. There are things to improve. But as far as...yeah ever, it's in the best state. It's not AMAZING, but I still have fun. I don't have a problem doing these exotic quests though.

I think PvP is in a decent place. Roaming supers, OEM and heavy are issues but the general weapon and subclass balance is ok and it appears to be getting better for Shadowkeep. Unless you come up against a stack of players all abusing these outliers then PvP is both enjoyable and pretty fair in my experience.

The OP here blames anything but himself. Its the guns, the other players that are trying harder and have better controllers etc. I'll share a conversation I had with him so you can understand. OP is in quotes: [quote] The argument is that snipers have worked the same way since their inception and it's not hard to learn how to use them. At this point, unless you're 12 and this is your first shooter, you already know how to use a sniper rifle. Destiny doesn't have the game mechanic prowess to introduce anything different. [/quote] This argument can be made for anything, even for things not related to gaming. Here is an example: The argument is that [auto rifles/scout rifles, hand cannons, side arms] have worked the same way since their inception and it's not hard to learn how to use them. At this point, unless you're 12 and this is your first shooter, you already know how to use a [auto rifles/scout rifles, hand cannons, side arms] [quote] The perceived skill gap is little more than trying vs not trying. Someone on the edge of their seat sweating it out like a crazy person to pad their PvP stats is gonna do better than someone who is only there to get a quest done and leave as quickly as possible. The fallacy is that players play for the same motivations and that's not true. [/quote] Delusions. You can try like your life depended on it and there are players that would easily win against you with non meta loadouts. If 2 players that are similarly skilled, sure, the one that is trying will most likely win, as is the case in anything. [quote] I have no intention on making my blood pressure spike and sitting inches from my TV. Some people do. That's not skill, that's just trying harder. I could bench 300lbs too if I worked at it for a few years. I do not care enough to try, doesn't mean I suck at it. Pointing a reticle at a thing and pressing a button one time to kill them is not hard enough to denote it being skill. Motivation is the culprit, not mechanics.

Special Ammo nerf and everything is fine. There is simply too much floating around and fusions are stronger than some heavy weapons. Wouldn’t hurt to nerf shotgun range a smidge

PvP is fun. It does need some tweaks but overall there are lots of counters. Not sure why a titan camping around a corner with a shottie is a problem?? Straight lining out of corners will just get you killed. Probably by a sniper.

[quote]We were winning my most recent game at one point 70 to 58. Then the crappy spawns kept flipping over and over allowing the other team to basically attack us from the front and behind despite the fact that we weren't pressing at all beyond mid map. Every death after the 5 minute mark was an OHK from heavy, OEM shotty titans, or supers. Spawn flip never favored my team once. Yea this isn’t a problem of bad spawns this is a problem of your team not pushing the spawn as a whole team. If you are in the middle of the map it’s common sense that if you kill 3 people they will spawn behind your team. It’s not that hard

Handcannons are snipers with Zero recoil Primary shotguns are snipers that 1hk anywhere in the body Fusion Rifles with Linear Fusion Rifle Range Jotum is Garbage basically a Toaster with Tracking The Colony: the Hardest weapon to Master, just pace your shots and you'll be fine Auto Rifles are the Laughing stock of PvP weapons, nothing new here SMGs have more Range than Auto Rifles Recluse another crutch that requires no skill Trash Exotics like 1 eyed mask Roaming supers like Fist of Havoc that last like 1 minute 7 Column Medals have never been easier with supers like DawnBlade Sentinel shields that Bounce off walls 20 times & wipe out Fireteams in a 20 mile Radius Spectral Blades a super for Noobs that wanna Spam the Win Button Blade Barage another Crutch super to add to the List of Dumb supers Roaming supers that cant be countered. basically indestructible MountainTop, LOL? what the actual fcuk Greande Launchers that don't require Heavy ammo Ok🙄 basically Heavy weapons that work without Heavy ammo Truth Rocket Launcher a Crutch with Aggressive Tracking Crucible Spawns are a joke Arbalest? o you thought Sleeper Simulant was Annoying? Warcliff Coil for when you wanna go Full Ret@rd Chaperone? for when you run out of sniper ammo Lord of Wolves, oh my god just kill me already Tractor Cannon? the perfect blend of Fun & Balance But dont let this distract you from the fact thet Eververse will be the only Vendor getting a Refresh👍

I'd upvote you 10,000,000 times if I could. Let's list all of the wonderful, excellent things about Crucible and Gambit, shall we? I'll start: Crucible: - Players criss-crossing to screw up aim assist. Aim assist should not function when you are scoped onto an opponent and firing. Easy fix so Bungie will NEVER do it. - Parties of 4-6 players all using the same exact metas. - Recluse; a SMG that gets headshots from Scout range. - No-skill punks running OHK weapons with $200 auto-aim controllers mommy bought them. - Same punks who also paid some Chinese slave to farm the weapons for them. - Every match turns into Mayhem. May as well not have Mayhem, it's redundant. - The Chaperone, a shotgun that is used like a sniper. - Wall shooters. - Useless fricking grenades. If I land a solar grenade on somebody they should die. - Preferential handling of laggy connections. - The ability to jump off map and back on to avoid getting hit. - Speed and teleport hacks - don't deny it. - TTK under a second for some players. - Dying half a second after getting to cover. Gambit: - Most of the above. - Kell's Grave...seriously? Worst fricking map ever. Well, maybe Eternity. - Getting sniped by invaders before the alarm even goes off. - Jerk clans that get close to winning then farm invasions. - Blockers that blink 2-3 times per second at times. - Enemies that teleport almost instantly when a tracking rocket is fired at them. - Entire map fires on you if you have 15 motes. Especially Scorn. - STOMPING. - Enemies ignore invaders...seriously? - Invaders shoot through enemies, but you can't when defending yourself. Lame. - Defenders can hide behind the portal and shoot you, but you can't see or shoot them. - Red and Green outline on invaders bad for color-blind.

i dislike any argument where you insult people

[quote]I'm just gonna emote randomly for PvP matches now. [/quote] Do you really have nothing else in your life to do right now other than to log onto Destiny , go into the crucible and randomly emote? The worst are the losers doing this in Rumble screwing the game for people trying to play a proper game of Rumble without some fool running away to an early 8 point lead because they farm some wanker emoting every time they respawn. Don't like it? Go play a game you do like. Loser.

I too hate PvP and gambit. My solution is that I just don't play those modes. It's not worth it to be pissed off for hours in a video game. They're supposed to be fun. If it's not fun I'm not gonna do it.

Try playing minecraft. Nobody can hurt your feelings there.

There are plenty of PvE only games out there. I still like Destiny PvP as it is. The only issue currently is Quickplay is more sweaty than Comp, but that will be resolved in Shadowkeep On PC there is still a large variety of load-outs. I think you are exaggerating and playing up to the stereotypes of the Crucible many of which were left behind in earlier seasons. I play a lot and rarely see Dust Rock anymore, can't recall the last time I was killed by it but it feels like months ago