Doesnt need to be as strong as hate. Prejudice is prejudice. 🤷‍♂️

So what, I'm prejudiced against drug users? I don't support that lifestyle, but I co-exist with them. That's now how this works dude, you're only calling Lee a bigot because this was about gay people. If it was about nearly anything else, you would not care

> Unironically comparing recreational drug use to someones actual sexuality I've seen some bad faith arguments before, but whew...

Yeah, it was a bad comparison, but I just want to show that people choose not to support other's lifestyles without hating them

Hate doesnt need to enter the equation.

A bigot is someone who cannot tolerate something. Lee said he does not support, not that he does not tolerate

Not supporting something i.e - being against it whether in principle or otherwise isnt tolerance though, is it? Its possible to be tolerant in action and conduct whilst being intolerant in view.

Literally the whole point of tolerance is saying "hey, I don't like what you guys or doing and I don't particularly agree with it, but I'll support your right to exercise your freedoms and I won't seek to cause any harm to you or your group." As far as I can see, Lee tolerates them

In action. Not in view. Two seperate things buddy, not sure how many more times I need to explain that.

Lee is not a bigot, not sure how many more times I need to explain that.

If someone thought it was wrong to be white, that would be a racist view, non?

Sexuality is different than race though

How?

I do not think sexuality is an immutable characteristic of someone, race is

Sexuality isnt a choice, its part of who you are. Good grief...

I don't agree. We never got to study that because the conversation got shut down by SJWs, so until we can talk about it again, I shall remain on the side of it's a choice since that is how I see it manifest in my life

Are you actually serious? Look - no matter how hard I try, I cannot find a man attractive. I'm not straight by choice. Nobody is.

Well, I see many gay people (especially bi people) flip flop around which gives me the idea that it might be a choice. A choice that is hard to make and not alot can do, but a choice. I could be wrong though, but I want to be swayed by studies and data

[quote]Well, I see many gay people (especially bi people) flip flop around[/quote] I mean... you [i]do[/i] know that Bi people are attracted to both men [b]and[/b] women right? 😂 You ever wonder why you never see a straight person "flip flop"? We dont grow up with people saying our sexuality is wrong, immoral, unnatural, an abberation, abhorrent, we dont read scripture saying we should be put to death for being straight, its not used as a negative colloquialism, we arent assaulted for it, we dont need to worry about being harangued for public displays of it... given all that social pressure, a lot of which persists even despite Pride, is it such a surprise that it takes a lot of Gay people some time and introspection to come to terms with who they really are? Give me something that isnt refuted with simple sociology please.

I know who bi people are. I dated someone who was bi (though I suspect that they are doing it for attention and flip back in a couple years). They go from I like everyone to I like one gender very frequently. Sure, historically, gays have been treated worse, but don't pretend that gays are under the same pressure now. Their behavior is encouraged by nearly everyone. The media reinforces it, world leaders accept, more than half the country supports them. If gay people are still flip flopping, it's more having to do with them and less to do with "social pressure." I'm done speaking to you, this conversation has gone on too long. Lee isn't a bigot and I fear for your mental health if you think otherwise

[quote]I know who bi people are. I dated someone who was bi (though I suspect that they are doing it for attention and flip back in a couple years). They go from I like everyone to I like one gender very frequently.[/quote] If they're pretending to be bi, they arent bi. [quote]Sure, historically, gays have been treated worse, but don't pretend that gays are under the same pressure now. Their behavior is encouraged by nearly everyone. The media reinforces it, world leaders accept, more than half the country supports them.[/quote] And yet they still face plenty of shit from the other half, be it overt or subtle, its still there. "Not as bad" is still bad. [quote]If gay people are still flip flopping, it's more having to do with them and less to do with "social pressure."[/quote] Its not flip flopping at all. Its realising what part of their identity is. The fact that "coming out" is still even a -blam!-ing thing speaks volumes. Yes society is getting better, but "I think its wrong" is regressive, holding things back and, yes, does indeed constitute bigotry. Not overt, sure, but still - it is what it is. [quote]I'm done speaking to you, this conversation has gone on too long. Lee isn't a bigot and I fear for your mental health if you think otherwise[/quote] I've explained multiple times what I think, and you seem hell bent on painting this as black and white instead of the shade of grey that it is.

[quote]If they're pretending to be bi, they arent bi.[/quote] Correct, but it wasn't just a "i'm pretending to be bi for attention." I think once that person has more time to think it over, they might change your mind. They wouldn't break under pressure, believe me, they're too stubborn for that lmao [quote] And yet they still face plenty of shit from the other half, be it overt or subtle, its still there. "Not as bad" is still bad.[/quote] I am Christian. I am told my faith is wrong by people in this country. My struggles aren't as bad as the struggles of Christians in early times. If you truly want to live that lifestyle, fine, but except flak from it because every lifestyle choice we make is going to get flak. Just because they're gay doesn't mean they're special and they can't be told what they're doing is wrong. It's their responsibility to keep doing what they want or to stop. [quote]If gay people are still flip flopping, it's more having to do with them and less to do with "social pressure."[/quote] [quote]Its not flip flopping at all. Its realising what part of their identity is.[/quote] If you come out and then turn back on it, it's flip flopping [quote]The fact that "coming out" is still even a -blam!-ing thing speaks volumes.[/quote] Not really, you're telling people that you're gay. I don't see how this is an issue [quote]Yes society is getting better, but "I think its wrong" is regressive, holding things back and, yes, does indeed constitute bigotry.[/quote] Absolutely not. I can think something is wrong and not be a bigot. Please stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a bigot, it's not a very good way to help people understand your side [quote]Not overt, sure, but still - it is what it is.[/quote] You're looking for bigotry where it's not. Try the Middle East next time [quote]I've explained multiple times what I think, and you seem hell bent on painting this as black and white instead of the shade of grey that it is.[/quote] I don't know, I think it's pretty effing simple. If you seek to hurt people of a characteristic you find deplorable, that's bigotry. Simple ideas are not, good day sir

[quote]Correct, but it wasn't just a "i'm pretending to be bi for attention." I think once that person has more time to think it over, they might change your mind. They wouldn't break under pressure, believe me, they're too stubborn for that lmao[/quote] One minute it is, the next it isnt... 🙄 [quote]I am Christian. I am told my faith is wrong by people in this country. My struggles aren't as bad as the struggles of Christians in early times. If you truly want to live that lifestyle, fine, but except flak from it because every lifestyle choice we make is going to get flak. Just because they're gay doesn't mean they're special and they can't be told what they're doing is wrong. It's their responsibility to keep doing what they want or to stop.[/quote] You've never had to "come out" as Christian? You havent faced anything approaching the same social pressure lmao. You can tell someone their wrong, or think it, but guess what? Without good reason, its bigotry. In your case, Religious Bigotry. [quote]If you come out and then turn back on it, it's flip flopping[/quote] That just sounds like someone was bi tbh. [quote]Not really, you're telling people that you're gay. I don't see how this is an issue[/quote] Something typically hidden out of fear over how people would react? Again, not to the same degree as previous times but its still there. [quote]Absolutely not. I can think something is wrong and not be a bigot. Please stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a bigot, it's not a very good way to help people understand your side[/quote] If you think so unreasonably, then that view is indeed bigoted. "Bible says" simply isnt good enough. Note that at no point, I believe, have I actually outright labelled anyone a bigot, merely pointed out that a [b]view[/b] they hold is bigoted. [quote]I don't know, I think it's pretty effing simple. If you seek to hurt people of a characteristic you find deplorable, that's bigotry. Simple ideas are not, good day sir[/quote] If you think something is wrong, without a good, logical reason, then that is an unreasonably intolerant view aka a bigoted view. Again, its perfectly possible to hold an intolerant view without acting upon it. Dont think of it as an accusation, think of it as food for thought. Lees a big boy, I'm sure he's taken on board what I said and made of it what he will. Theres no ill will from me towards him. 🤷‍♂️

[quote]One minute it is, the next it isnt... 🙄[/quote] I'm saying they won't break under the societal pressure that you claim there is. They would think for themselves and only change when they feel like it [quote]You've never had to "come out" as Christian? You havent faced anything approaching the same social pressure lmao.[/quote] Sure, but I'm illustrating that if you want to do something, someone is going to have a problem with it and that's inevitable. Just deal with it, it happens to everyone. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're special [quote]You can tell someone their wrong, or think it, but guess what? Without good reason, its bigotry. In your case, Religious Bigotry.[/quote] This is just stupid. You said that if you don't support homosexuality, you are a bigot. Now it's "without good reason." Make your decision. Also, you said bigotry only applies to immutable characteristics of someone make Religious Bigotry not real bigotry. Please just get your terms right dude [quote]If you come out and then turn back on it, it's flip flopping[/quote] [quote]That just sounds like someone was bi tbh.[/quote] No, there are gay people and lesbian people who do it as well [quote]Not really, you're telling people that you're gay. I don't see how this is an issue[/quote] [quote]Something typically hidden out of fear over how people would react? Again, not to the same degree as previous times but its still there.[/quote] For -blam-s sake, just do it if you want to. If that's the lifestyle you desire, tell everybody, I do not care. You lose some friends in the process? If you want any lifestyle, you want people that support you no matter what, so it's probably for the best. [quote]Absolutely not. I can think something is wrong and not be a bigot. Please stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a bigot, it's not a very good way to help people understand your side[/quote] [quote]If you think so unreasonably, then that view is indeed bigoted. "Bible says" simply isnt good enough.[/quote] Woah, watch out dudes, an intellectual. I agree, people who say, "the Bible says this so eat it" are annoying and not the most intelligent, but you cannot seriously tell religious people that their one book they know is true is invalid as part of the discussion. It's good support and it's the basis of which this society is built off of. [quote]Note that at no point, I believe, have I actually outright labelled anyone a bigot, merely pointed out that a [b]view[/b] they hold is bigoted.[/quote] "I didn't say you're stupid, I just said you have stupid views." This is dumb, just don't let bigotry enter the equation unless it's actual bigotry. You guys get so panicked, nine times out of ten, the people you call bigots aren't actually bigots. [quote]I don't know, I think it's pretty effing simple. If you seek to hurt people of a characteristic you find deplorable, that's bigotry. Simple ideas are not, good day sir[/quote] [quote]If you think something is wrong, without a good, logical reason, then that is an unreasonably intolerant view aka a bigoted view. Again, its perfectly possible to hold an intolerant view without acting upon it.[/quote] Then if nothing happens because of it, who f***ing cares? I sure don't. If someone called my religion evil (like our lovely "enlightened" atheist friend Museic who called religious people "idiotic." Here's a link if you don't believe me: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/252409373?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1) then I'd try to explain to them why it's not, but it's not bigotry. [quote]Dont think of it as an accusation, think of it as food for thought.[/quote] Here's some food for though, stop calling people who disagree with you bigots or saying they have "bigoted views." [quote]Lees a big boy, I'm sure he's taken on board what I said and made of it what he will. Theres no ill will from me towards him. 🤷‍♂️[/quote] Hopefully Lee never changes, what a good lad

[quote]I'm saying they won't break under the societal pressure that you claim there is. They would think for themselves and only change when they feel like it[/quote] Thats the thing, you dont just change your sexuality at whim. You are what you are. For some, it takes a while to come to terms with it. [quote]Sure, but I'm illustrating that if you want to do something, someone is going to have a problem with it and that's inevitable. Just deal with it, it happens to everyone. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're special[/quote] Nobody is saying their special lol. Theres nothing wrong with pointing out something unreasonable 🤷‍♂️ [quote]This is just stupid. You said that if you don't support homosexuality, you are a bigot. Now it's "without good reason." Make your decision. Also, you said bigotry only applies to immutable characteristics of someone make Religious Bigotry not real bigotry. Please just get your terms right dude[/quote] Thats always been the case. Its not bigoted to be intolerant of murder for example, because theres a damn good reason for it. If you can find me an actual solid reason as to why Homosexuality is so wrong (i.e something not contained in a man-made book from a couple of millenia ago) then maybe you'd have a point? [quote]No, there are gay people and lesbian people who do it as well[/quote] If they have the capacity to find both sexes attractive, they're bi. [quote]Not really, you're telling people that you're gay. I don't see how this is an issue[/quote] [quote]For -blam-s sake, just do it if you want to. If that's the lifestyle you desire, tell everybody, I do not care. You lose some friends in the process? If you want any lifestyle, you want people that support you no matter what, so it's probably for the best.[/quote] Point is that should never be the case. I've got friends I disagree with politically, I'm not at all Religious yet I'm married to a (probably best described as "part time" tbh) Catholic. Why does Sexuality have to have that issue? Its dumb. [quote]Woah, watch out dudes, an intellectual. I agree, people who say, "the Bible says this so eat it" are annoying and not the most intelligent, but you cannot seriously tell religious people that their one book they know is true is invalid as part of the discussion. It's good support and it's the basis of which this society is built off of.[/quote] Aye, I can agree with the last part regardless, even if the whole thing is fictional (which I'm not saying is the case btw), but it was written so long ago that parts of it are certainly going to be outdated, especially as our understanding of ourselves and the world advances. At what point do we say "Yeah they got that wrong"? [quote]"I didn't say you're stupid, I just said you have stupid views." This is dumb, just don't let bigotry enter the equation unless it's actual bigotry. You guys get so panicked, nine times out of ten, the people you call bigots aren't actually bigots.[/quote] Paradoxically, its possible to hold a bigoted view without actually being a bigot. [quote]Then if nothing happens because of it, who f***ing cares? I sure don't. If someone called my religion evil (like our lovely "enlightened" atheist friend Museic who called religious people "idiotic." Here's a link if you don't believe me: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/252409373?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1) then I'd try to explain to them why it's not, but it's not bigotry.[/quote] I'll read through it later, but from what you describe, if it [i]isnt[/i] bigotry directed towards your Religion, then he was on -blam!-ing thin ice. [quote]Here's some food for though, stop calling people who disagree with you bigots or saying they have "bigoted views."[/quote] Its not because they disagree with me personally, god damnit I'd be screeching at the vast majority of #density if that was the case 😂 [quote]Hopefully Lee never changes, what a good lad[/quote] Theres certainly more good folk on here now (yes, even on the Conservative side 😉) than when I first set foot in here, thats for sure.