I beg to differ. Pvp, imo, didn't cause bad ai and boring missions. Pvp didn't cause a lack of endgame Pvp didn't cause a lack of interesting weapons(guns can still be powerful and balanced in pvp black spindle, breakneck, Sleeper simulant etc) Pvp didn't cause patrol zones to be boring Pvp didn't cause a bad story Etc etc. I get pvp resulted in us having slow cooldowns which wasn't fun, and it left us with the double primary thing (which isn't an objective negative) But most of what's wrong with this game has nothing to do with pvp

PvP complaints nerfed an endless list of weapons: anything from suros, mythoclast, thorn, hawkmoon, tracking on launchers, mag capacity on launchers, field scout on snipers, hand cannon handling and mag size, pulse rifles, range on shotguns, HMG mag capacities, high caliber rounds, weapon stability and handling speed and of course fusion rifles. The list of bleedover from PvP nerfs to PVE goes on and on and on. And every class has had the PVE usefulness of various supers and abilities destroyed in the name of PvP balance. Trials brought a toxic element to the game. Arguably it was the most negative thing that happened to the community. Additionally Bungie is obsessed with making people play PvP whether they want to or not by embedding it in quest chains for PVE weapons and requiring it to maximize progression in a week. Force people to do stuff they don’t like for long enough and eventually they stop playing your game. I wish the new Bungie well. They have one chance now to blame all the poor quality of life decisions in Destiny on Activision (regardless of whose idea they actually were) and fix the game. But right now it’d be a miracle to see much improvement before D3, if they even continue to invest much in trying to save the franchise vs just launching thier new IP.

This is what I'm talking about. You guys are so caught up in the superficial changes. You've managed to ignore literally every thing that I mentioned in my last comment. Destiny is going nowhere, in part due to bungie, and in part due to the community just not getting it.

Well I think I directly address how we got to the lack of interesting weapons and class abilities and how it sucked the fun out of gameplay. Those are hardly superficial changes, every one affected how the game played for the worse and it was a perpetual stream of things making the game incrementally worse over time to the point where the decision for total blandness of abilities and weapons was cemented in D2. Trials encouraged significantly more douchbaggery in the community. And it’s not like it’s possible to point to a positive aspect of so much PvP focus in what was pitched as a PvE game.

Again no The fundamental dynamic of gameplay did not change at all Yes you could run around with a shotgun or a sniper through pve. But pve functioned the exact same. It played the same way. Missions are designed the same. Enemies behave the same. Nothing changed other than the gun you used to shoot When it comes to a lack of interesting weapons. It's not because of pvp That's a 2 parter 1. We're jaded We'd had 3 years of destiny. And D2 would have to bring something radically different for us to respond. But it didn't. 2. Bungies lack of creativity Pvp isn't forcing a lack of interesting weapons. Because interesting and powerful weapons pve can and do exist without disrupting pvp balance. Thorn y3 was an example. (it's stacking damage made it much better in pve than it originally was, and in pvp it was the best gun in its archetype) And we have izanagis burden and breakneck as current examples. And I can't reiterate this enough Pvp doesn't cause bad ai Pvp doesn't cause bad missions structure Pvp does cause bad servers Pvp doesn't cause empty patrol zones Pvp doesn't cause a lack of endgame Pvp doesn't cause a boring or tedious grind. And so on.

[quote]Again no The fundamental dynamic of gameplay did not change at all [/quote] The feel of the way the game played did. In big way. Guardians started feeling weaker and weaker making even killing trash mobs annoying. [quote] Yes you could run around with a shotgun or a sniper through pve. But pve functioned the exact same. It played the same way. Missions are designed the same. Enemies behave the same. Nothing changed other than the gun you used to shoot [/quote] Not true. With the field scout nerf sniper rifle mag capacities halved, and shotgun range changes absolutely affected their PvE viability. Nerfs to rocket launchers affected how much damage you could put out with them in PvE and how well they tracked, hand cannon felt less crispy, plus handling was nerfed, Ammo decreases affected HMGs, Auto generating ammo want away to avoid PvP ammo economy issues. the list of how weapons just felt worse in ways that affected every minute of PvE gameplay goes on well past the above. [quote] When it comes to a lack of interesting weapons. It's not because of pvp [/quote] Sure it is. A blandness is enforced by the need for "Balance" so all weapons end up being similar with similar TTKs. Contrast with Warframe. Nobody cares if a particular weapon is OP. In fact the core gameplay loop in Warframe involves seeking out and building OP weapons and abilities. The core gameplay loop in Destiny used to be more like that. Now it's about collecting more guns that are largely the same as what you already have, because if a new one was noticeably better the PvP side of the game would be crying Nerf about three seconds later. [quote] Pvp doesn't cause bad ai Pvp doesn't cause bad missions structure Pvp does cause bad servers Pvp doesn't cause empty patrol zones Pvp doesn't cause a lack of endgame [/quote] But PvP not causing things doesn't absolve it from causing a great many bad things. What you mention above are small cheese compared to the bad effects of PvP on the game. AI isn't the worst among games, Missions are OK if repetitive, networking is not as big an issue in PvE, PvP driving people away causes empty patrol zones, endgame well raid design has got progressively worse for reasons unrelated to PvP but PvP has caused guardians to be less powerful making endgame activities less fun. [quote] Pvp doesn't cause a boring or tedious grind. [/quote] I beg to differ. The most tedious or annoying grinds in Destiny have almost always been associated with PvP. But per above one of Destiny's biggest problems is you are grinding for bland stuff like what you already have, or RNG players such an important part in acquiring many more interesting items that you have no way to effectively direct your grind at the thing you want to obtain. Mostly you are just aimlessly repeating activities waiting for the right dice roll to come up.

I give up 😔