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1/15/2019 7:05:04 PM
2
Competition =/= competitive
A nba game is a competitive event
A random pick up game of basketball is not.
Comp or trials = nba game
Quickplay and social playlists = pick up game
One should have sbmm, one absolutely should not
English
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Then where would adult sports fit in? They are the equivalent of organized pick up games, yet they effectively have sbmm in the form of leagues, age groups, etc. Otherwise then the next time I'm involved in any kind of pick up game, I'll try to explain that the score doesn't matter, this is just an exhibition, we are playing for fun, it isn't a competition. We'll see how that goes.
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[quote]Then where would adult sports fit in? They are the equivalent of organized pick up games, yet they effectively have sbmm in the form of leagues, age groups, etc.[/quote] Those are competitive events, leagues and such are organized competitions. [quote]Otherwise then the next time I'm involved in any kind of pick up game, I'll try to explain that the score doesn't matter, this is just an exhibition, we are playing for fun, it isn't a competition. We'll see how that goes.[/quote]It would go fine, scores and teams dont matter in pick up games
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[quote][quote]Then where would adult sports fit in? They are the equivalent of organized pick up games, yet they effectively have sbmm in the form of leagues, age groups, etc.[/quote] Those are competitive events, leagues and such are organized competitions.[/quote] So you're suggesting that destiny has two divisions: NBA and pickup. Basketball between NBA and the different college organizations (NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA) has nine divisions representing fewer players than Destiny. The problem is that Bungie caters to the elite players and jettisons any concerns for the rest. Bungie can't be trusted to handle SBMM properly. After last summer's comp changes (which supposedly started matching on glory) I still was having games with 5,000+ glory spreads in lobbies.
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Why do you say bungie caters to the elite? Players have the choice between thier preference of sbmm or no sbmm As for your comp experience I and most people I know have almost always only had games vs others around our glory rank. There are outliers and bungie is planning on fixing that but they are generally the exception
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작성자: lurchmouse 1/18/2019 7:34:43 AM[quote]Why do you say bungie caters to the elite?[/quote] Several things, but I would say: 1) They provide no ability for lesser-skilled players to choose to play against players of similar skill (a "choice" that doesn't effectively deliver on that choice isn't a real choice) 2) Chase/grind rewards revolve around PVP activities: Redrix, Not Forgotten, Luna's, Breakneck, Mountaintop vs. Loaded Question 3) Hawthorne bounties heavily favor PVP - some weeks are difficult to compete without 4) Responses to PVP balance that impact the PVE sandbox. Now, it would be fair to criticize arguments #2 and 3 that those bounties don't require wins or beating better players. I'm believe strongly that they are built this way to populate the PVP playlists - providing high-skill players cannon fodder. #4 is something Bungie's handled poorly since D1. [quote] As for your comp experience I and most people I know have almost always only had games vs others around our glory rank.[/quote] That's just not my or my friends experience. Granted, PC has a lower population, and I expect comp has been cleared out because of the types of games I've played before. That guy that came in at 50 glory to get stomped by someone at 5,500 probably isn't coming back. edit: accidentally submitted before I finished a couple thoughts.
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[quote]Several things, but I would say: 1) They provide no ability for lesser-skilled players to choose to play against players of similar skill (a "choice" that doesn't effectively deliver on that choice isn't a real choice)[/quote]You've got comp which will try to match you by rank, rumble which has sbmm and banner when its up [quote]2) Chase/grind rewards revolve around PVP activities: Redrix, Not Forgotten, Luna's, Breakneck, Mountaintop vs. Loaded Question[/quote]Most of those weapons are pvp weapons so it makes sense for them to be based in pvp, you're not likely to use lunas/nf/mountaintop/redrix in pve As for breakneck you need to play gambit which imo is not the same as pvp. Also having an quest revolve around pvp doesn't necessarily mean they cater to top tier players - players of all levels sometimes enjoy matchmaking vs othe people, it's not as if you'll always be placed vs 1% ers [quote]3) Hawthorne bounties heavily favor PVP - some weeks are difficult to compete without[/quote]TRUE and something they should change, however again I dont see why favoring pvp automatically = catering to top players [quote]4) Responses to PVP balance that impact the PVE sandbox.[/quote] This doesn't cater to top tier players at all but rather the pvp players in general who complain and get things nerfed. [quote]Now, it would be fair to criticize arguments #2 and 3 that those bounties don't require wins or beating better players. I'm believe strongly that they are built this way to populate the PVP playlists - providing high-skill players cannon fodder. #4 is something Bungie's handled poorly since D1.[/quote]Tbh I dont think bungie need to incentivize pvp like that, the numbers stay solid throughout the weeks and I cant see bungie trying to force others into it, also you wont always be matching top tier players so it's not necessarily a us vs them [quote]That's just not my or my friends experience. Granted, PC has a lower population, and I expect comp has been cleared out because of the types of games I've played before. That guy that came in at 50 glory to get stomped by someone at 5,500 probably isn't coming back. edit: accidentally submitted before I finished a couple thoughts.[/quote]Bungie recently changed how that playlist works, you should see less outliers now
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작성자: lurchmouse 1/18/2019 5:13:16 PM[quote]You've got comp which will try to match you by rank, rumble which has sbmm and banner when its up[/quote] 1. Comp doesn't effectively rank by skill. They say they will now, but they said the same thing last July and it didn't happen. I'll believe it when they deliver. 2. I don't play enough rumble to opine. 3. 2 out of 3 games against NF this morning and 3 out of the last 10. I don't know what to say than the facts don't bear out your claim. [quote]2) Chase/grind rewards revolve around PVP activities: Redrix, Not Forgotten, Luna's, Breakneck, Mountaintop vs. Loaded Question[/quote]Most of those weapons are pvp weapons so it makes sense for them to be based in pvp, you're not likely to use lunas/nf/mountaintop/redrix in pve[/quote] It's about content design choices, net efficacy of the weapons in activities. The community criticized Bungie for locking Redrix behind PVP without a similar grind in PVE. They responded by adding four PVP grind weapons and one PVE grind weapon. [quote]As for breakneck you need to play gambit which imo is not the same as pvp.[/quote] I understand your perspective, but disagree because effective invades are a strong indicator of a win in gambit. [quote]Also having an quest revolve around pvp doesn't necessarily mean they cater to top tier players - players of all levels sometimes enjoy matchmaking vs othe people, it's not as if you'll always be placed vs 1% ers[/quote] Bless your console-playing heart. If I play a 5-10 game session, it is more likely than not that I'll face a Not Forgotten, and almost guaranteed that I'll face Luna's. Just looking at my last 10 games, I matched against Luna's twice and Not Forgotten three times... two of those since I initially commented in this thread so this isn't a self-selection posting based on bad matchmaking prior. [quote]This doesn't cater to top tier players at all but rather the pvp players in general who complain and get things nerfed.[/quote] Based on their history (post-summit responses, etc.) I think it's clear that Bungie values feedback from streamers, etc. over the rank and file. Of course, this isn't a provable claim as they would never come out and say it, but the actions seem consistent. [quote]also you wont always be matching top tier players so it's not necessarily a us vs them[/quote] You're right on the first count, it is just 50% of the time. Further it IS us vs. them. They want to be able to load into a playlist and not play each other because it's difficult for them to "relax" when doing that. The only way for them to have that is to force substantially less skilled players into their lobbies. I get that your experience is different. I suspect you get a benefit from the substantially larger console population that makes matchmaking easier. I think I'd have a less negative opinion about it if I could quit out of a match without penalty when their comp matchmaking system fails and sends me up against someone over 5k glory when I'm sub-1k.
