To be fair, he asked if he opened the government up that day would she approve border security that included a barrier in 30 days. When she said no, he said there was nothing to talk about then and walked out. It's not childish and it's not the first time a president has walked out of meetings. Either way, if he backs down now he looks terrible to his supporters and really hurts any chance he may have at winning in 2020. Chances are he's going to try to declare a state of emergency, which will go nowhere and get struck down by a judge.

This wall is for security, he's shouldn't back down from putting America first. The democrates can just give him the 5 billion dollars, and this will all be over. This wall will protect American sovereignty from criminals. I wonder when the dems will stop being so childish when they don't get what they want, what they want is no wall.

[quote]This wall is for security, he's shouldn't back down from putting America first. The democrates can just give him the 5 billion dollars, and this will all be over. This wall will protect American sovereignty from criminals. I wonder when the dems will stop being so childish when they don't get what they want, what they want is no wall.[/quote] Lol “We need this wall for the protection of America! So to get it, I’m going to stop funding portions of the government like the coast guard!” Pretty sound logic IMO.

The Dems can stop it at anytime and give the funding. All of these federal workers will get paid afterward too, at least for the next couple days. I'm just wondering, if the Dems care so much for Americans, why not reduce crime with the wall and give these families their paychecks with just giving Trump the wall?

[quote]The Dems can stop it at anytime and give the funding. All of these federal workers will get paid afterward too, at least for the next couple days. I'm just wondering, if the Dems care so much for Americans, why not reduce crime with the wall and give these families their paychecks with just giving Trump the wall?[/quote] The democrats [i]are[/i] trying to reopen the government by passing resolutions to continue pay at current levels. Trump and republicans are refusing to allow for the reopening. That’s on them. Negotiations aren’t won by “I’m gonna hold the country hostage until you cave to my demands and you’ll get nothing in return.” The wall isn’t being funded because it’s a pointless, expensive, harmful project which won’t stop crime. This isn’t Israel. We have a much larger border which cannot feasibly be walled off the same way. We already have the majority of immigrants arriving by overstayed visas. Drugs are coming in via legal points of entry. Illegal immigrants already commit crimes at lower levels than citizens. Immigration is already lower than in past years. This wall simply isn’t necessary.

Yes it is. The Dems aren't looking for deals. Trump asked if they would fund a wall, they said no, and he walked away because those were the conditions. Why was no Dem mad at Obama when he shutdown the government for the ACA, oh well. If the wall is immoral, it is effective. If it is ineffective, it cannot be immoral. The point is to stop illegal immigration, which is a crime. The 5B he is asking is pocket change, and it is not harmful. Thousands of illegals cross, a wall will be greatly beneficial and will cut down that number, ask any boarder patrol agent, we find people with expired visas and we throw them out too. It doesn't matter if illegals commit less crimes than civilians. Firstly, they are criminals just by being here, secondly, they shouldn't be here to commit the crime in the first place. Want to know what will lower illegal immigration further? A wall. Walls are necessary. They cut down illegal immigration and stop criminals from entering.

[quote]Yes it is. The Dems aren't looking for deals. Trump asked if they would fund a wall, they said no, and he walked away because those were the conditions. Why was no Dem mad at Obama when he shutdown the government for the ACA, oh well. If the wall is immoral, it is effective. If it is ineffective, it cannot be immoral. The point is to stop illegal immigration, which is a crime. The 5B he is asking is pocket change, and it is not harmful. Thousands of illegals cross, a wall will be greatly beneficial and will cut down that number, ask any boarder patrol agent, we find people with expired visas and we throw them out too. It doesn't matter if illegals commit less crimes than civilians. Firstly, they are criminals just by being here, secondly, they shouldn't be here to commit the crime in the first place. Want to know what will lower illegal immigration further? A wall. Walls are necessary. They cut down illegal immigration and stop criminals from entering.[/quote] Trump is the one not looking for a deal, man. He refuses any concessions. If he gave up DACA citizenship he’d get his wall. If he gave up universal healthcare, he’d get his wall. He needs to negotiate. Your statements concerning morality do not make sense. The wall is immoral in that it’s going to be harmful to the environment, cause eminent domain land seizures, and [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/10/texans-trump-forget-about-wall/]disrupt American people’s lives[/url]. It’s ineffective because it won’t stop illegal immigration. Any group of people with a ladder, shovel, or saw (if we go the slats route) can circumvent this without much effort. You forget we already have roughly 700 miles of fencing which [i]already [/i]doesn’t help anything. You’re asking for billions to stop what is essentially a misdemeanor civil crime. That’s like asking for giant walls on all street sides throughout the entire country to stop jaywalking because jaywalkers are technically criminals lol. It’d be extremely expensive and pointless as jaywalking (and illegal immigration) would still ultimately happen despite the overly expensive, pointless endeavor. If you want effective security, there are better ways to do that which don’t require a nigh useless wall. Democrats are very open to talking about comprehensive immigration reform, or even more effective ways for increased border security. Nobody wants open borders. The dems just don’t want this pointless wall. You’re also not going to find anybody who is going to agree to round up search parties to search person to person in this country for the purpose of rounding up and mass deporting every illegal immigrant here. If you think that’s a real possibility, I’m guessing you don’t have much real world experience. Many companies in the US utilize those workers and leave plenty of incentives for them. You’d need an overhaul of a lot of laws to remove not only the people, but the incentives for hiring those people. And that’s a whole different discussion. Putting it succinctly, the wall isn’t going to stop folks. It’s too easily circumvented, it doesn’t remove financial incentives for being here, it doesn’t treat the primary means of illegal immigration, we don’t have a crisis of crime from illegal folks, and it would be too disruptive for Americans. There’s no reason for it. Period.

They have said that they are looking into DACA citizenship deal. Although, that deal was struck down by Dems earlier if I recall correctly. I never said that it would be stopped, I said that it would decrease. If the fence and wall won't do anything, why have a boarder at all? Walls have worked, it is not as easy as a ladder and a shovel. Some of these illegals have killed people, I thought you guys cared for families, now you are fine with some illegals killing people? Jaywalking is nothing near murder. Berlin wall, great wall of china, any walls around homes and communities. These walls have fulfilled their purpose, and there isn't any statistic saying that this won't work. We can still find people with expired visas... we don't have to search every home for papers. We can find them other legal ways.

[quote]They have said that they are looking into DACA citizenship deal. Although, that deal was struck down by Dems earlier if I recall correctly. I never said that it would be stopped, I said that it would decrease. If the fence and wall won't do anything, why have a boarder at all? Walls have worked, it is not as easy as a ladder and a shovel. Some of these illegals have killed people, I thought you guys cared for families, now you are fine with some illegals killing people? Jaywalking is nothing near murder. Berlin wall, great wall of china, any walls around homes and communities. These walls have fulfilled their purpose, and there isn't any statistic saying that this won't work. We can still find people with expired visas... we don't have to search every home for papers. We can find them other legal ways.[/quote] Trump struck down the DACA deal after Dems agreed to it. Trump also vetoed a bill which would have kept the government open and given over a billion dollars to be used for other border security means (just not a wall). This [i]unanimously[/i] passed in the senate too, but Trump refused to sign it and now McConnell won’t bring it up for a vote again because he knows it would pass again. The republicans are the ones being unreasonable here. You’re acting like there’s a huge crisis of crime on the border, but there isn’t. Again, illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens. The emphasis here being on violent crimes like murder because spending $25 billion to slightly stem the rates of a civil misdemeanor is completely absurd. If you look at the statistics, you see the majority of illegal folks don’t cross via the border, and don’t commit high levels of crime so why then are we trying to wall up the border to stop crime? And why did we shut down parts of homeland security to try to fund that effort? It’s all nonsense! We can and should secure the border via less disruptive means, but we shouldn’t throw money at an unproven non-deterrent.

It doesn't matter if they commit less crimes, those are crimes that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Remember that officer who was killed by an illegal immigrant? A wall could have prevented that. Walls have been deterrents and effective, look at the list I gave in my other post, those work and have worked. How else should we secure the boarder? Put up more useless fence as you say?

[quote]It doesn't matter if they commit less crimes, those are crimes that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Remember that officer who was killed by an illegal immigrant? A wall could have prevented that. Walls have been deterrents and effective, look at the list I gave in my other post, those work and have worked. How else should we secure the boarder? Put up more useless fence as you say?[/quote] How would a wall have prevented that? Do you seriously expect illegal immigration to drop to 0 if a 2,000 mile wall is erected? Immigrants would just hire folks to dig them under, lift them across, bust them through, or take other means. Or you’ll just have more people overstaying visas. Nobody is going to make the journey to the border, see a wall with TRUMP emblazoned on it, and go “aw, shucks. They sure outplayed me! Guess I’ll give up trying to go to the US for a better financial situation!” and then run home tails between their legs with Trump proudly standing on the wall behind them, man. Come on.

No. I said that it would decrease, not stop completely, I also said could have prevented, as in the wall could have stopped him. If immigrants break in like that, they will be meet with force, it would be seen as an invasion. A wall will prevent some people from trying and more people from succeeding.

[quote]No. I said that it would decrease, not stop completely, I also said could have prevented, as in the wall could have stopped him. If immigrants break in like that, they will be meet with force, it would be seen as an invasion. A wall will prevent some people from trying and more people from succeeding.[/quote] It wouldn’t be nearly as effective as providing our border security money for other means of enforcement (which democrats voted to do and Trump blocked). This wall has so many detriments and would not help the nonexistent problem nearly enough. There’s no crisis, there’s no jeopardy, crossings are already way down (below a ten year average) and these people commit fewer crimes than normal citizens. That still ignores that most illegal folks are here via other means and can easily get around a wall/fence. [i]This would not stop or decrease anything.[/i] Improving the technology used by the border patrol agents would. Still, in the face of all that you want to spend tens of billions, seize tons of land from people, damage the environment, and spend years constructing a massive eyesore to prevent what amounts to jaywalking just because a minuscule percentage of the people who cross commit violent crimes. This is the logical equivalent of banning cars to stop drunk drivers. You’re making no sense.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/5986953610001/?#sp=show-clips I don't care if you think if fox is great or not, listen to the boarder patrol chief. I've already countered most of your claims. But I will point them out to you again. Murder, r*pe, pedos, and murderers =/= jaywalking. If you say otherwise, that is just insanity. Eminent domain is there for a reason. About a thousand cross a day, that's to much. A wall will greatly decrease that number, other walls have proven this. You give no rebuttle to that other than "no it won't". Every illegal immigrant that commits a crime should not have been there to commit the crime in the first place. If a random kid from next door comes into my house and breaks stuff, but my kid is still breaking more stuff than the random kid, am I just supposed to let the random kid be because he is breaking less stuff? Of course not. Anyone with a sense of preservation would get the random kid out of your house. We already have laws against illegal immigration, it's in the name. This is more along the lines of breathalyzers than banning cars. The wall will decrease ILLEGAL immigration, not LEGAL immigration. LEGAL immigrants are welcome. This is a high and deep wall, it won't be easy to get around. https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/report/50-examples-government-waste 5B dollars is pocket change. You won't even notice or care about it a week after it gets funded.

[quote]https://video.foxnews.com/v/5986953610001/?#sp=show-clips I don't care if you think if fox is great or not, listen to the boarder patrol chief. I've already countered most of your claims. But I will point them out to you again. Murder, r*pe, pedos, and murderers =/= jaywalking. If you say otherwise, that is just insanity. Eminent domain is there for a reason. About a thousand cross a day, that's to much. A wall will greatly decrease that number, other walls have proven this. You give no rebuttle to that other than "no it won't". Every illegal immigrant that commits a crime should not have been there to commit the crime in the first place. If a random kid from next door comes into my house and breaks stuff, but my kid is still breaking more stuff than the random kid, am I just supposed to let the random kid be because he is breaking less stuff? Of course not. Anyone with a sense of preservation would get the random kid out of your house. We already have laws against illegal immigration, it's in the name. This is more along the lines of breathalyzers than banning cars. The wall will decrease ILLEGAL immigration, not LEGAL immigration. LEGAL immigrants are welcome. This is a high and deep wall, it won't be easy to get around. https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/report/50-examples-government-waste 5B dollars is pocket change. You won't even notice or care about it a week after it gets funded.[/quote] Of course the border patrol chief wants extra funding his way; it’s his freaking department. How about we listen to the [url=https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/fbi-agents-say-shutdown-threatens-national-security/580039/]folks[/url] at the FBI who are being hurt by this shutdown? Or to the TSA people who are leaving their posts because they’re not getting paid? Or air traffic controllers who aren’t doing their job? Or to the coast guard who aren’t keeping the country safe? Don’t sit here and lecture me about safety trying to defend a president who will willingly throw the country under the bus in the name of defending it. Do you not see how stupid that looks? If you’re truly concerned about safety, this might blow your mind. Places with more undocumented immigrants actually have [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ee14ab390b80]lower[/url] crime rates overall. So you’re actually [i]safer[/i] in places with more undocumented immigrants. So don’t give me all this nonsense about how all this is to stop crime. The facts and actions taken by the president are against you here. All he’s done is try to seize land from its rightful owner for the purpose of building a wall that there’s no evidence will even work. Trump went to the border today and was shown tunnels around existing walls along with drugs and other illegal items seized [i]at legal ports of entry[/i]. The Center for Migration Studies points out that only a [url=https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-border-wall-only-stop-one-third-of-illegal-immigration-migrants-fact-check-claim-review/]third[/url] of illegal immigrants have been coming from the border on top of that. So Trump is doing things to make the country less safe, illegal immigrants commit crimes in lower numbers than citizens, places with more immigrants have less crime, and only 1/3 illegal citizens are coming from the border. AND [quote] The undocumented immigrant population hit a 12-year low in 2016, the most recent year for which data is available, almost entirely due to a sharp drop in unauthorized border crossings by Mexican nationals, according to the Pew Research Center. [/quote] That’s from the CBS link. So Trump is trying to attack the problem of illegal immigrants (who already aren’t committing many crimes) by spending the most money possible to fight the smallest possible symptom in a way that will help the least. And this is the hill you want him to die on lol I really cannot see how this is such a good idea to you. It’s nothing if not an absurd waste of tax payer time and money with the bonus of hurting hundreds of thousands of US citizens in the process. Safety my ass.

That guy was under Obama. Chuck and Nancy can come up with a bill with the wall funding, and this will all be over. This is not solely on the POTUS. Saying it is only on him is rather ignorant. This will blow your mind too. If there is no criminal to commit the crime, there will be no crime. Isn't that a revolutionary discovery. You should try to put in practice, it will lead to, get this, lower amount of crimes, just for stopping people from doing illegal stuff. Amazing how this stuff works. Great, a fact checker from a left leaning source. Here is a chart from a right leaning source. https://dailycaller.com/2016/03/26/is-trump-wrong-about-a-border-wall-one-stunning-chart-has-the-answer/ Even Jim Acosta proves that walls work. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cnns-jim-acosta-mocked-for-accidently-proving-that-border-walls-work You are pulling numbers out of nowhere and are reaching. I can only say so much before I sound like a broken record repeating facts that prove that a wall will work. Look at anywhere else a wall has been built. More times than not, they have worked.

[quote]That guy was under Obama. Chuck and Nancy can come up with a bill with the wall funding, and this will all be over. This is not solely on the POTUS. Saying it is only on him is rather ignorant. This will blow your mind too. If there is no criminal to commit the crime, there will be no crime. Isn't that a revolutionary discovery. You should try to put in practice, it will lead to, get this, lower amount of crimes, just for stopping people from doing illegal stuff. Amazing how this stuff works. Great, a fact checker from a left leaning source. Here is a chart from a right leaning source. https://dailycaller.com/2016/03/26/is-trump-wrong-about-a-border-wall-one-stunning-chart-has-the-answer/ Even Jim Acosta proves that walls work. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cnns-jim-acosta-mocked-for-accidently-proving-that-border-walls-work You are pulling numbers out of nowhere and are reaching. I can only say so much before I sound like a broken record repeating facts that prove that a wall will work. Look at anywhere else a wall has been built. More times than not, they have worked.[/quote] Chuck and Nancy had a bill which unanimously passed the senate. As I’ve pointed out. You want to complain about sounding like a broken record, but I continuously have to point out these facts to you. Over. And. Over. It’s on Trump when both houses passed the bill and he vetoed it. It’s on Trump when he says “I will own the shutdown and won’t blame you” lol. In response to the “if there’s no criminal there won’t be a crime” remark, so the wall will not only drop illegal immigrant rates down to zero, but it will deport everybody too? That’s crazy considering it’s not going to be treating even close to the main source! You can see my proof in the numbers. Overstayed visas are becoming almost the exclusive way immigrants stay here illegally. The wall hasn’t, and [i]can’t[/i] stop that. At [i]best[/i] it’s diverting a flow, but as the tunnels pointed out to Trump [i]earlier today[/i] show, people [i]will[/i] circumvent the wall. Your fact check is also irrelevant as it, again, and as pointed out to you when I mentioned Israel earlier (and again I’m repeating myself), isn’t the US. We share a 2,000 mile border with Mexico. These middle eastern countries need to guard significantly less. Man power and communication would be far more important, as I’m fairly certain I [b]also[/b] mentioned earlier. And I don’t care about what stupid shit Jim Acosta says. I’ve responded to your “sources” if you’d like to call the Daily Caller as such. Now why don’t you address the fact that studies of American crime rates with the illegal immigrants here (in this country) show that less crime happens in areas with those people? You keep saying you want to stop crime, but reality shows that higher populations of immigrants already have lower crime. If you want to talk about self owns, that’s a pretty good one you’re pulling off. You’re right, you do sound like a broken record because you keep saying the wall will somehow be worth seizing land from American citizens because you think it will somehow completely stop unauthorized crossings. You ignore every counter point to that and just repeat yourself. You ignore the existing walls are already circumvented, you ignore that crossings are already on a huge decline, you ignore crime rates, you ignore the damage the president is willing to do to this country for this wall, you ignore the number of people who come here legally via visas and simply overstay those, ignore that the president has overridden the will of the democratic house and republican senate, and you just try to hold on to this horribly flawed view you have that Trump can apparently do no wrong here in your eyes. I admire the lengths you are willing to contort reality in your mind to agree with him, but you have to see how much you’re ignoring to do so. I’m not ignoring what you’re saying. I’ve responded to all your claims from the groundless idea that this wall will reduce immigration, to the incorrect idea that this is on the dems and not Trump, to the idea that this wall would reduce crime. It’s all wrong, as I described above. This wall is a waste of time and money and we need to open up the government again rather than hurting our country for it.

All of these things you have said that I "ignore", I have already typed a response to (just look back at other replies and you will see them), you just repeat the same things over and over and ignore my responses. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants--blam!-_n_5806972.html Please, walls have historically worked. You have yet to give me an example where they have not worked most of the time. For the sake of everyone, reduce immigration (not completely stop it as you claim I say) by building a wall. If reason, logic, life, or even facts can't change your mind, I don't know what will. And I am done trying. I hope that you have a good day and will find the truth.